Episode 27:
The 2025 Holiday Special
On this week’s episode of The Extensionists, Jay Whetter and Toban Dyck share their highlights from the guests we’ve welcomed to our studio the past year. Our behind-the-scenes team also joins this episode to talk about what it takes to put The Extensionists together.
Listen here:
Transcript
Toban Dyck 00:03
This is the extensionist conversations with great thinkers in agriculture. I’m Toban Dyck, and I’m Jay Wen. Hi, hey, Toban, Hi Jay.
Jay Whetter 00:20
We’re we’re going to do a quick summary of the year.
Toban Dyck 00:24
Do you remember? Do you remember everything? No, it’s been a big year
Jay Whetter 00:27
to go back and take some notes.
Toban Dyck 00:29
So okay, but before you look at your notes, highlights, like just off top of your head.
Jay Whetter 00:35
Well, okay, so we were at that Carrie conference in Guelph. Yeah, that was a real highlight, because I think we had a lot of fun, although it was interesting in the way the whole event was organized. You were kind of doing the AV for the session before us, which means that you weren’t, yeah, so you were. You had to then get our presentation set up. Yes, yes. And then it said, Jay, do something.
00:59
Okay. Well here, hello everybody. And then I just,
Toban Dyck 01:01
Oh, that’s right. Like, you had to hold court while I was like, kind of getting things set up. I remember that. I remember that, you know, I’m I, I’m gonna say, I’m used to that. It happens a lot with me, stuff with AV stuff, fill in. Yes, this kind of do it. And so I was, I was fully prepared, given what I knew of the conference the day before. I’m like, I was gonna bring my laptop, and I knew that that would be the fate, like my fate,
Jay Whetter 01:28
for the farm writers, yes. And then I talked about going to Kenya for this, if International Federation of agriculture journalists. And I told about that story, about the lion photo, yes, yes. People kind of thought that was interesting. And I guess I should say it here. It’s not a long story, but we ran on a couple of Safaris as part of this conference, and and so there we encountered a male lion and his meat, and they were just kind of looking into the distance, very handsome looking animals, but what you never see when you see these amazing animals on safari photos is that there was about 30 Toyota Land Cruisers and Toyota vans full of people all looking at the lions and taking pictures. So then I showed them the lion photo, which my son took, which was perfect. And then I showed them the behind the scenes of all these vans. And I just said, so how does that change your your perspective of safaris and even of the Lion, who just lives with all of this constantly, anyway? And then Toban said, Okay, I’m ready. And then we started. That was
Toban Dyck 02:36
a good conference, though it was. And that was a really interesting I feel like I learned a lot about presentations,
Jay Whetter 02:43
yeah, almost like how not to do yes, yeah, because I think for an extension conference, and hopefully they have another one, and can build upon that, because you never know the first it was the first time ever, and there’s lots of learning done on how to, how to run a conference. But I just feel like they, I mean, we again. I don’t want to toot our own horn too much,
Toban Dyck 03:02
or, I mean, or, or dump on other people, right? Because it’s like, it’s one of those things where it’s like, gonna be, like, there’s a bit of sensitivity,
Jay Whetter 03:08
yeah, I guess, right. But I think, I think, I think we can talk about everyone we talked to at the conference, kind of thought that there’s, it’s, we need a conference like this, yeah? So the second version will be, will be, will be better than the first one, yeah, my key take so we’ll get, yeah, what was your key takeaway from here?
Toban Dyck 03:27
So I wonder about this. So, like, you know, a lot of a lot of the presentations that we, that we sat through, were very academic, right? So, and that comes with its own kind of formula for how to present. It’s all kind of baked into that formal education and that process. But why, why does it have to be boring like? I don’t think it does like. I think a lot of those people had really interesting content, and they’re interesting people, and they’re interesting people, but it was just such the format and everything and how they presented. It was just, was just really, was really, was really boring, but, but you know what? Like, I don’t want to like, it’s not their fault. I’m sure they wish, you know, I wish. I’m sure they wish they were trained by Yeah, by you. No no by us, by me. Come on. Come on.
Jay Whetter 04:17
All right. Is there any other highlight you want to emphasize? We want an award. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the farm writers, that farm writers
Toban Dyck 04:27
Federation, we can now. We are, we are an award winning podcast, right? Yeah, that has, that has some, that has some cache, and
Jay Whetter 04:34
we’re getting some, I don’t know whether it’s because of the award, but we’re, we are getting some support, advertising support, which is amazing, yeah. And thank you to everyone who advertised with us and sponsored us absolutely.
Toban Dyck 04:47
Also, I was at grow Canada. I mean, you’ve been around too. You’ve been doing some events. And, yeah, a lot of people talk to me about about the podcast. They said they really enjoyed it. Yeah, great. Yeah.
Jay Whetter 04:59
And I just every. I was at canola week, and I was moderating a panel, and someone probably a friend of mine. It was anonymous, but said, Oh, Jay, I really like the way you’re moderating this panel. You should have a podcast. And then people came up to me afterwards and said, Yeah, Jay, you really should have a podcast. And I was like, actually, I do have a podcast. So I got to do a little bit of promotion anyway. That’s a nice setup that was whoever asked, whoever made that comment, set it up nicely for me to talk about the extensionists.
Toban Dyck 05:29
When one person cornered me at grow and they’re like, they’re talking to me about the podcast, and they said, they said they like that. I’m like, Oh, what do you like about it? They’re like, they they said, like, the how you and I are, like, higher, higher thinking, oh. And I’m like, Well, that sounds very, like, lighted up. I don’t know if we want that, right? We want to be very accessible. I’m like, Whoa, okay. But she also said she really liked it and, and so that was kind of praise that was hard to receive our guests.
Jay Whetter 06:00
Yeah, that’s right, our guests do like share lots of extension ideas, which I think is the whole point of the podcast.
Toban Dyck 06:08
So, so, and that brings us to quick we’re gonna do some we’re gonna do some quick recaps, yeah, of our guests, but into that, but that’s but that’s one of the challenges of this podcast, I think, because when people say they like it, I also say that I really like it, because after every episode, I’m always struck with how much content we cover in that hour. And I am challenged by it, because it’s like, how do I we’ve learned so much. How do I bottle that? How do I how do I use it? How do I implement this stuff? But yeah, so let’s get into it.
Jay Whetter 06:42
Okay, we had 19 episodes in 2025 starting with Jeff shaino in on January 7. And for me, I’ve talked to Jeff a lot before, and I’ve heard him do presentations. The key skill that Jeff brings to the world of extension is just extreme enthusiasm for for phosphorus and soil tests, not just phosphorus, but, I mean, he’s a soil scientist, and he knows about farm fertility management and anyway, but, but, and, but they really, what makes him effective is that he’s, he’s intensely enthusiastic about the topic. Yeah, it’s just infectious. So if there’s, if Jeff’s in a room, people just have to listen. Okay, what do you got for
Toban Dyck 07:29
Jeff likes cars? We connected on that. And, yeah, the importance of farmer observation for sure. Yeah, yeah. Let’s get to Tracy.
Jay Whetter 07:37
Okay, Tracy Herbert, so, and I’ve, cited Tracy a number of oh yeah over the year, empathy, empathy, yeah. And she, in fact, she inspired me to to consider adding a unit to our leadership training or our communications training. Yeah, on, on the value of empathy and extension connecting with with people,
Toban Dyck 07:57
for sure, for sure. Yeah. And we, I connect. We connected with her at the Carrie conference as well. That was lovely.
Jay Whetter 08:03
Yeah, gave her a couple of shout outs. Yes, we did.
Toban Dyck 08:06
Daryl. Daryl demetric, well, you’ve known Darryl for a long, long Yes, I feel like I should, I feel I feel like I should recuse myself from this. Oh, really. Well, I mean, it just
Jay Whetter 08:16
well, Darryl has been doing extension in Manitoba for, I don’t know, 30 plus years. And so he has a wealth of knowledge. And I think what mean, what my takeaway from Darrell is that even though he’s been doing this for a long time, he just, like, thrives on trying new things. He does. He does, yeah, so his, he’s, I really appreciate his enthusiasm, and he’s been a really good fan of ours,
Toban Dyck 08:38
yeah, yeah, for sure, helping develop the podcast, and certainly always willing to talk about about extension and a huge fan of diljee, which we’ll get to certain ways. Justice, yeah,
Jay Whetter 08:51
so justice is with the National circle for indigenous agriculture and food. Yeah, at a Regina. And young, probably the youngest guest we’ve had, probably, and what I of course, she was just her. She had this infectious giggle quite often when I said something stupid or when you did. But, I mean, so I don’t say no, it was just, I guess it was just me, but it was the gaming this, twitch, twitch, right? So, like this, communications through gaming, yeah? That was as a way to to connect with, with people, yeah,
Toban Dyck 09:21
they like that. I haven’t forgotten about that, yeah. Like, that’s really interesting. And I think when we when we talk about it to others, especially at this carry conference, when we mentioned it, I think, I think people like that. Yeah. Like, that’s a really novel approach, right?
Jay Whetter 09:37
David, yeah. David Sachin from, also from the university, well, not also from the University of China. He’s from of China. He’s from Regina,
Toban Dyck 09:44
same as Justice tree rings like, yeah, yeah. And big, big hiker, too, wasn’t he? Yeah?
Jay Whetter 09:48
Remember you like he lived in a cabin in the woods, yes,
Toban Dyck 09:52
months, Yeah, him and his wife, yeah, still hiking tent, and I love them.
Jay Whetter 09:57
But his is, his point was. Is about connecting with farmers on challenging topics like climate change, yeah, and sort of, sort of trying to connect with farmers and make it relevant to them, which is a recurring theme in extension, you want to first connect with your audience before you can, you know, then talk about how to consider other ideas that kind of thing. Francois LaBelle, yeah.
Toban Dyck 10:27
I mean, been around the pulse industry, like since kind of the beginning of time, almost the late. Francois LaBelle, yeah, very, very, very sad, very honored to have had a relationship with Him. Wealth of knowledge has been around to see the pulse industry grow from kind of from from very small to quite large in Canada and and definitely attributes extension to that growth. Yeah. So, so, yeah. So, huge wealth of knowledge there dilgeet.
Jay Whetter 11:02
So dilgeet just was a steady stream of stories and extension ideas that would are really quite novel. From the telephone thing, which was like, we use it all the time. We use it all the time. So starting with one message and then seeing how it ends up at the end of the people whisper it into each other’s ears. And then the snakes and ladders thing, which I mentioned in Guelph, and people say, like, tell me more about the snakes and ladders game. And it was, maybe everybody knows what Snakes and Ladders is. And so you if you do something like a best if you follow a best management practice, you zoom up on a ladder. And then if you do something that’s kind of violates best practices you fall down on a snake. And so you could create a game about your particular industry’s best management practices and make it into snakes and ladders. So yeah, what did you take away from dilji?
Toban Dyck 11:52
Well, I mean the songs, like using, using songs to extend information, or poems or theaters, like he’s a wealth of, kind of, lots of things that are kind of waiting to be implemented, right? Like, we, we should try these things. He’s got great ideas, and they need to be, need to be realized.
Jay Whetter 12:12
Allison sunstrom, yeah. So Allison was actually hosted at an event at canola week, a panel of startups. And so Allison has a bunch of money NY, a ventures and and supports agriculture startups and but that means we talked a bit about that. But for me, I think one of the things that I remember Allison really emphasizing was kind of support for women in business, and that was one of my major takeaways from her, is that it’s a harder path, often, for women in agriculture and women in business in general, especially to get funding. Not, not to say that’s an extension thing, but it was a real good message for me to hear
Toban Dyck 12:53
for sure. Yeah, definitely a, definitely an important industry message, absolutely.
Jay Whetter 12:59
Mark Campbell, Mark Campbell, you want to talk about Mark? Or do you want me to so he was, yeah, he’s from the UK, and he also shared quite a few good tips on connecting with with leaders and extension. And I really liked the thought bubbles thing. So at the end of a conference, he said, Okay, tell me one takeaway that you’re going to do in your work over the next month or something. And then he had them write it out on a thought bubble and take their picture, yeah? And then follow it up in a in a in a month or so after the event, actually, the he related it to your new year’s new year’s resolutions, and on by January 17 or something, that’s when most people give up on the new New Year’s resolutions. That’s right. That’s the day reached out to the people, yeah. It’s kind of a famous day, yeah,
Toban Dyck 13:42
that’s right, yeah. I remember, like his kind of approach to extension was very human, right? Just very like, having an events, being with people, yeah? Because he does a lot of leadership, like, kind of events, right? Like, he gets people in a room together, sit in a circle,
Jay Whetter 13:57
talk, brings in guest speakers, that’s right, who are often outside of agriculture or outside of the UK. And so he told us about Yolanda Jensen, who we’ll get to shortly, because we ended up interviewing Yolanda
Toban Dyck 14:08
and we chatted with Mark about influencers, didn’t we? Wasn’t that. Wasn’t that, that conversation about bringing in, bringing in, kind of like social media people be able to come in and be a part of those circles. Oh yeah.
Jay Whetter 14:19
He talked to us a lot about social media stuff, which we actually, I would suggest, just suggest just go listen to the mark podcast, because he has lots of tips, because we need to keep rolling here. Scott day.
Toban Dyck 14:28
Scott day. I mean, you know, Scott, yeah, so similar situation to Daryl. I mean, I that was very eye opening, kind of learning what Scott all does, putting his time between Silicon Valley and his farm in Manitoba, and he had
Jay Whetter 14:40
25 years or whatever, as an Extension Agronomist for or ag rap is what they call them in Manitoba,
Toban Dyck 14:46
yeah, so like that. The kind of marriage of his perspectives is, is, is a very interesting conversation, right? Like just, just even hearing about what he’s all what he’s all doing, and what’s all happening in his in his world, is, is, is. Is, is interesting. And then extension and venture capitalism, and, you know, all that stuff. It’s very and, yeah, and how to, like, if you’re, if you’re a startup, how to pitch an idea, yes, in a way that’s going to actually generate some interest. Yes, very interesting. Janelle Hamblin, Manitoba, pork, crisis communication, crisis communications. And that was her. That was her, which is incredibly interesting. We have very few guests who kind of specialize in crisis communications, but she’s livestock, right? Yeah, so that yeah, that makes, that makes sense. So that’s that. That is an interesting element, a novel. Novel element
Jay Whetter 15:32
clarity, trust and timelines, yeah, that’s kind of the key,
Toban Dyck 15:37
yeah, for, for crisis communications, crisis, crisis extension,
Jay Whetter 15:42
John Burns, so he’s been involved with all kinds of organizations, farmer from from Saskatchewan, but the one, the one thing that I remember from John is that he talked about with his family business, keeping all of his his children involved. Yeah, say children, but they’re adults, yeah, and their children, and even if they’re the non farming part of the family, he said, he keeps them in the loop, and they have family meetings, and I and so we asked him why that’s important. And he says, well, because the my non farming child might have a child who might actually want to farm, yeah. And so if you shut out your non farming kids, then you kind of block off that that that person could be a potentially great farmer. And I suppose there’s, you know, maybe the message, the broader message, is, is, who’s within your your loop, and who do you want to keep you know, you don’t want to silo people out, because there might be opportunities to keep your DIG opportunities. For growth beyond just the people you expect. Yeah. Think about Yeah, totally, yeah.
Toban Dyck 16:47
I mean, I think that’s very important communications wise, to bring every, keep everybody in the loop. Yeah, for sure. Ryan Barrett, yeah.
Jay Whetter 16:54
So Ryan’s involved with with agriculture and Pei potatoes especially, and I think with this, and I think my takeaway from Ryan is that with a smaller group of farmers, same with Rob caravo, who we’ll get to in two points, you can actually almost have a small network group. So you can do that one to one, or that small group extension that isn’t as easy with, say, 20,000 farmers or more, yeah, but if you’ve got a few dozen or a few 100, you can actually start to have some of that one on one, or bring everybody into a room to talk about the needs
Toban Dyck 17:32
and very, very passionate about it. Yeah, I met him at the carry Yeah, he’s a passionate guy. I really, yeah, I really value that conversation for sure.
Jay Whetter 17:43
Yolanda Jensen,
Toban Dyck 17:44
yeah, yeah. We’ve drawn a lot from that, from that conversation as well, in our in our training, and we Yeah, empathy as well. Motivational interviewing, motivational interviewing, the numbers, the other one, yeah. How do you feel? How did you How is that field between one and 10 this year? And yeah, you say it’s a six. And she says, okay, so what do we need to do to make it a seven? Yeah, that’s worth. That’s worth, yeah, relisting for sure. Rob caribou,
Jay Whetter 18:15
yes, from Windsor and it so he knows all about the green. He’s an expert on the greenhouse Yes, side of the business, yeah, yeah. Very interesting. Again, like, like Ryan this network, because there’s not a ton of farmers in greenhouses. I mean, there’s a lot, there’s, it’s a huge money, but I
Toban Dyck 18:37
mean, just a few dozen producers involved, and he has a network now that brings the university Yes, and connects him with farm, with the growers. That’s right, that’s kind of a tight network, yeah, yeah. Incredible, invaluable, really, just Yeah. That’s a really neat thing for both. I think the researchers really valued it, at least from his perspective, like making sure that what they’re doing aligns with what the farmers interests are, and the farmers also get a, get a kind of a bird’s eye view
Jay Whetter 19:04
of the process. So the and the research, research is tightly connected. What the farm needs are, yeah, yeah. Megan Seagrave, I really enjoyed that conversation, but mostly about her approach to travel. So in the first 10 minutes, she just talked about, like, you know, she’s she loves ports, and she was at Rotten dam and was driving around the countryside and saw this huge facility, and just pulled in and said, what goes on here? Can you give us a tour? Yeah? And they said, Yeah, okay, we’ll give you a tour. And I just thought that was kind of a like, curiosity driven approach to tourism. Yeah.
Toban Dyck 19:40
And just a window into world that I knew nothing about before chatting with her
Jay Whetter 19:47
bio industrial innovations, yeah. And then the support for her call for more government support for the primary industries, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Jerry Friesen, yeah.
Toban Dyck 20:00
Yeah, that was a great that was a great conversation. Mental health is, is important something we should, kind of, I think season we should, we should ensure, we make sure that we’re, we’re addressing it often, yeah?
Jay Whetter 20:14
And, well, Abby put me on the spot asking me what my definition of what a Mennonite is. And then we got into that a bit. And then we also talked about religion. And I was it was interesting listening to you and Jerry talk about so that, how the certain religious upbringing can actually, you know, motivate, but also intimidate, or, I’m not sure. Anyway, I don’t need to get into that right now. But I really loved that interview with Jerry, and it just went off in some, some interesting rabbit holes or interesting ways, like it was a conversation that I’ve never had anything like that before.
Toban Dyck 20:53
No, I loved it. No, yeah, yeah. It could have gone, I think you and I chatted after that, that one could have gone, like it felt like just tip of the iceberg, right? It could have gotten, it could have gone quite a bit deeper. And, you know, it’s maybe we, maybe we revisit him or the topic,
Jay Whetter 21:10
yeah, Sabrina Parris, university, Calgary, so Sabrina was telling us about, like government policy, sometimes, often, is disconnected with with farmers and farmer needs in it. And when you don’t include your audience in the policy discussions, it just creates a barrier of distrust, and it’s really hard to overcome that.
Toban Dyck 21:36
Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And we talked about the need for we talked about these national kind of, you know, soil strategies and stuff, and the, you know, whether, whether there’s value in that, and how do we get at that with, with Sabrina, correct? And that was, that was, those were, those were interesting, kind of interesting concepts to unpack with her, for sure.
Jay Whetter 21:58
Yeah. And then Senator Robert black, Senator. Robert black, December 16 episode. So just the one just prior to this one.
Jay Whetter 22:08
And he wasn’t sure he wanted to,
Toban Dyck 22:12
but anyway, he was he liked it. He had fun. Yeah, tons of fun. Yeah, yeah.
Toban Dyck 22:17
We talked about all kinds of things. And so that my two takeaways, sorry, I was cut you off to when you you start,
Toban Dyck 22:23
you just can’t cut me off like that. I just get so excited. Well, he follow your what do you want to say? I’m gonna, I’m gonna remember so two things.
Jay Whetter 22:34
So just his 4h background. And I think he was, he was picked to be a senator because his 4h background was kind of appealing to Justin Trudeau, who said, We want you to bring that to the Senate. Awesome. What a great ringing endorsement for didn’t one of his kids kind of, yeah, his son pushed his son wanted to apply for the Senate. Yeah, Dad, you know what? You should also apply. That’s right, yeah. And then the other thing was, how to talk to a politician. So you gotta, you gotta you got a chance for a 20 or 30 minute meeting for a politician and and you don’t go in there with your whole laundry list of things you want to talk. Talk to him about. You said, come in with with just a couple of key points. He liked the idea of coming in with an infographic, so there’s quick takeaways. And then he said, there’s a line. He said, Don’t come to wine. I want to hear solutions, right? Yeah. Those are, yeah, those are my takeaways.
Toban Dyck 23:23
No, I just, I was just gonna say that I ran into him at grow Canada, and he, he was, he said he really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed our chat. So that was great. That was neat. Yeah, no, that was a fun conversation, even to learn kind of what, what, what he does there.
Jay Whetter 23:37
Yeah, okay, we’re gonna move on to the part two of the holiday edition.
Toban Dyck 23:44
Part two. What’s part two? Jay, well, I’m excited.
Jay Whetter 23:47
Are going to meet the people who help us make this all happen
Toban Dyck 23:52
behind the scenes, Abby and Ashley. Abby and Ashley, stay tuned. You.
Jay Whetter 24:09
In the face of increasing risk from extreme weather, rising costs and market instability, agronomist support is even more vital for sustainable production.
Toban Dyck 24:18
The free farm Learning Hub helps agronomists identify and implement high resilience practices that can help their clients improve soil health and boost profitability, and with the end of the year approaching, now is a great time for CCAs to sign up and earn CEU credits.
Jay Whetter 24:33
The Farm learning hub offers free self paced online courses, free webinars on nitrogen management, rotational grazing and cover crops, access to events, including on farm field days, workshops and conferences that connect farmers, ranchers and agronomists interested.
Toban Dyck 24:50
Check out the farm Learning Hub today. Visit
Jay Whetter 24:53
farm learning hub.ca.
Toban Dyck 24:57
Hey there listeners, if you’re enjoying the conversation. Here on the extensionist, you will probably love to get our newsletter. Yeah, it’s the best way to stay connected with us, with Jay and myself. Yours truly, I’m excited about the newsletter to be honest with you, because I think, well, so many of our guests have sorry. Why are you excited about say that differently, Jay, so many of our guests are they say so many things of interest, right? And I feel like the newsletter will be a great will be a great way to share that with our listeners, like quick take homes, yeah? Summaries, yeah, absolutely, one liner, absolutely, absolutely, I think about each each guest, we could probably write a whole bunch of articles from each of our guests, right? So to give our our newsletter subscribers, like summaries of, you know, the key takeaways of these things, plus, plus information on upcoming guests. All they got to do, all listeners have to do is go to the extensionist.com and follow the prompts to sign up for the newsletter. I think it’ll be, I think it’ll be great.
Jay Whetter 26:02
You. And we’re back as promised, with Abby and Ashley.
Toban Dyck 26:10
Abby is you gotta do the intro. You’re doing it. Okay, okay,
26:14
okay. I got it written down here so I can remember what their
Toban Dyck 26:19
job titles are. Very complicated.
Toban Dyck 26:23
Hi Abby camera, yeah, hi Ashley. Good to see Abby does the Abby wall? Abby wall is her producer,
26:32
not a B, like some of the other
Jay Whetter 26:35
do I call you a B, sometimes you do. I’ve never called you.
Abby Wall 26:40
I can play baby. I have reading out the job description, and you said AB, like, that’s my southwest
Jay Whetter 26:48
Manitoba accent. I’m
Ashley Robinson 26:49
sorry, I don’t we don’t have accents from Southwest.
Toban Dyck 26:53
You have a Charleston accent, which is way worse than mine. No, I have a delerine accent. I’m wait. I’m not near the dialects of Manitoba, yeah, but I don’t have the Low German sort of twin, yeah,
Toban Dyck 27:07
Abby, Abby, Abby and I have Yeah.
Jay Whetter 27:09
So it is a coming by it honestly, because AB is actually short for Abraham, Abraham Nina,
Toban Dyck 27:15
yeah, yeah. There we go. That makes perfect sense. Anyway, after my grandfather, Abraham wall, anyways, Abby’s the one who is like, behind the scenes giving. It’s a B, sorry, sorry, is that corrected? I’m gonna, oh, that’s this. This is messing with my brain. Now, she’s the one with the whiteboard behind the scenes giving Jay and I instructions during the podcast, so she’s the one like, wrap it up. Okay, change topic, Jay. Stop talking. No, I’m just kidding.
Speaker 1 27:46
I think I’ve only had to write on the whiteboard once where it’s like five minutes, or I’m starting to shut computers down.
Toban Dyck 27:54
Yeah, right, right, right. But she also prompts us with some good questions too, right?
Jay Whetter 27:58
Yeah, that’s actually the one with Jerry Friesen, when she said, Toban asked Jay what, how to define a Mennonite,
28:04
and then you’re just like, Abby asked this question.
Toban Dyck 28:09
Oh, that’s funny. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Moving on. And Ashley is our Ashley Robinson. Ashley Robinson, yeah, Hey, Ashley
Jay Whetter 28:17
does all of the pre interviews. Sets up the time, the scheduling. What else do you do? I mean, with the podcast, I know, yeah,
Abby Wall 28:26
I whenever you guys tell me you want to guest, I go and hunt them down and beg them to be on the podcast. Okay, I don’t have to beg, usually, but, and then I do the pre interviews, and I set up everything so you guys have guests when you come into here to do the interviews, and I send you guys notes so you guys have questions to ask them. And then after Abby edits the podcast, I review them and write the social media copy, and then put all that on social media. And yeah, do the newsletters.
Jay Whetter 28:54
Yeah, quite a bit before and after.
Toban Dyck 28:57
Yeah, it’s all Jay I have to do. We just show up, read the notes a few minutes beforehand, and it’s all done. No definitely.
29:07
Donna actors, I know
Toban Dyck 29:09
I got her green room and everything, and you’re quite a bit more high maintenance than me. That’s true. That’s true. My rider is pretty long, yeah, yeah.
Abby Wall 29:17
I’ve never actually been here for a recording day. So this was interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes. And now when I warn guests like, oh, we have to have, like, tech time stuff in there. I I know why, because we have to sit and fiddle with mics.
Toban Dyck 29:32
Well, you’re even commenting on that chair too. Yes,
Abby Wall 29:36
this chair, for any of the guests that have been here in person, they would know you really lean back in it. I feel very relaxed, but it feels wrong in a professional setting,
Jay Whetter 29:48
when Toban is talking, I can see a lot of our guests nodding off.
Toban Dyck 29:58
No, no, it’s. Contemplative. They’re like, they’re like, singing into themselves. They’re thinking deeply. I think that’s what it is. That’s what it is,
Abby Wall 30:05
okay, but there’s another thing that we should laugh about right now, your guys’ socks. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
Toban Dyck 30:09
So yeah, right. I bought us a Christmas present. My face is on my left sock and right. Same with you. Yeah? You chose the same ones. That’s great. This is from AB. Talk to us about this. Walk us through it.
Speaker 1 30:29
Talked about it a while ago because we had YouTube comments.
Toban Dyck 30:34
Your mic is cutting in and out. I know I have to be the producer here. You do
Speaker 1 30:39
know Ashley mentioned that there were YouTube comments about you guys wearing socks here, and we’ve talked about that for an intro, for sure. So I’m like, just make them fancy.
Toban Dyck 30:49
Yeah, yeah. These are fancy. They’re very Thank you. I do too. Yeah. Thank you.
Jay Whetter 30:55
Yeah. So my ears are red and Toban is a red. Is that by design? Are we supposed to be elfs?
Speaker 1 30:59
It is actually because it’s our extensionists photo for season two. And I just took your faces off of there and I put them on socks.
Toban Dyck 31:08
I didn’t notice, know that my ears are red. That’s our natural coloring.
Abby Wall 31:14
You guys must have, like, you guys took those photos during the summer. You guys mostly like, got some sunburns, yeah.
Jay Whetter 31:21
Okay, I have some questions for you too.
Abby Wall 31:23
Oh, yes, this is weird because I I usually plan everything, yeah, why didn’t you let me pre interview myself? Okay, I also
Toban Dyck 31:30
have no idea what he’s gonna answer it too, yeah, so I’m not going to
Toban Dyck 31:35
what is your biggest frustration with working with Toban? Oh, my God, I love it. And was gonna be Toban and Jay. So, yeah. So what is your biggest frustration
Abby Wall 31:46
when you guys don’t get back to me? When I message you like, I’m like, Hey, like, I need to, I need to figure out what episodes we have coming up, what interviews you want slotted in. Who do you want to be the next guest? And I usually send, like, three days in the row in the chat for you guys to reply to me.
Toban Dyck 32:02
Yeah, Jay, why are you so slow to respond? Oh, well, Toban.
Abby Wall 32:06
Toban, you usually do respond a bit sooner, just because we do work more closely together as to, of course, Jay has That’s right, projects outside of the world of before,
Jay Whetter 32:16
I am slower to respond than Toban,
Toban Dyck 32:18
just so it gonna first. Sometimes you are first.
Abby Wall 32:23
Sometimes when you’re really excited and into podcast land, like, but then you also send like five other messages telling me like 10 other guests that you want to have on the
Jay Whetter 32:31
podcast, so I either reply within 30 seconds or like, three
Abby Wall 32:35
days. Yeah, you’re one of those people.
32:39
Abby AB, what is your biggest
Toban Dyck 32:41
frustration is, Jay, can’t get your name right?
Speaker 1 32:44
Yes, that right now, that’s the one. Yeah, but no, I think you guys are great. I definitely oh boy, looking at the whiteboard when I’m like, sometimes we just like, 45 more.
Toban Dyck 32:58
Sometimes we just disregard it, though that’s yeah, that’s a problem.
Speaker 1 33:03
They ignore it. Is what they’re saying. They’re just trying to say it. We do ignore it. Sometimes it is totally fair where it’s like, great question and like, I should erase the right board right now. Yeah, some, sometimes,
Toban Dyck 33:15
oh, that a bad connection on your mic. I think it’s a bad connection. Oh, do we need another course? Court, we’re back. We should use Abby’s little, little producer.
Jay Whetter 33:32
Abby, what is, what is the most frustrating thing for you about working with Toban and me, the mic issues?
Toban Dyck 33:38
Yeah, we have a lot of mic issues, a lot of chord issues. Go figure
Speaker 1 33:41
like the producer’s mic is the one that doesn’t work, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Toban Dyck 33:45
Well, she’s the one who can handle it, yeah. There we go. AB, AB, AB, AB, yeah,
Speaker 1 33:51
that’s what we’re calling her. I think that happened twice in one week. Two different people called me AB after you said it. AB.
Speaker 2 33:58
I have never said AB in my life. No, it’s like the time you thought I swore in the podcast.
34:04
You also did that too. I did not.
Abby Wall 34:08
You swear all the time. That’s usually, you just admit it. You could have sworn Exactly.
Speaker 1 34:14
Ashley’s Ashley’s on my side for this. I’m
Abby Wall 34:17
not stating the blooper there is okay, let’s move on. We can’t be here all day. I got, I gotta get back to the city.
Jay Whetter 34:29
Ashley, what are some tips for Toban and Jay to improve their communication skills?
Toban Dyck 34:35
Oh, can I can? I guess at one of them, it might be getting it might be getting back to her in a timely manner.
Jay Whetter 34:44
You can’t answer the same thing to two different questions.
Abby Wall 34:47
Well, it is, though that’s yeah, because you guys, like, I follow you guys around a lot because I listen to all your podcasts. I go to training with you, so I really do follow you around a bit of stalker, I guess. Mm. Hmm, but that’s why you guys can do your jobs, because you need someone there to handhold
35:04
you. Just a paid stalker.
Abby Wall 35:08
I am a paid stalker, so, but yeah, definitely you guys just need to reply in more, faster, and then also just make sure you’re always pronouncing people’s names right.
Toban Dyck 35:20
These are also, like, kind of good extension tips, yeah, also, you know, not if they’re tips for us and we should take them, we should take them in but they’re also just, in general, good communications tips, yeah, respond and get names right. Are great, great
Abby Wall 35:35
on responding is you don’t have to, like, you can take a second to respond, don’t this is back to my own therapy. Don’t respond in the heat of the moment, right? You’ll say things to your regret. So if you’re really angry at me being like, I need to know which episodes you want.
Jay Whetter 35:51
Have you ever sent? Have you ever drafted an email to Toban and me and then deleted it because he knew it wasn’t?
Speaker 2 35:58
No, he’s getting it. We’re really like Abby. Have you ever
Toban Dyck 36:06
written a scathing email? Wait a second. I shouldn’t send this. Delete. Just bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, I’ve done that before, for sure. No guys,
Abby Wall 36:15
but I have, yeah. I’ve done that before. I said just before. We’re going off of like, life advice, yes, just Yes, take a second, respond in a timely manner. Yeah, that’s respectful to both yourself and the other person.
Jay Whetter 36:28
Actually, I like that a colleague, like a colleague of mine, made that same comment and and I said, I didn’t, I didn’t have an answer. And he says, Just gives, give me a thumbs up, or just something to acknowledge that you read the email and just say, I’ll get back to you. And I say, Oh yeah, okay, good.
Abby Wall 36:46
It is, yeah, that’s a that’s very male etiquette.
Toban Dyck 36:50
Yeah, etiquette. So like, from you guys have been here from the beginning of the podcast, and this, this shouldn’t be just all about, like, navel gazing about the podcast, but like, you’ve, what have you learned, like, extension wise, like from our from our guests, and like from kind of being involved in it, how you are involved in it? What would your key takeaways be? Or just, like, just some highlights doesn’t have to be anything profound, just kind of general.
Speaker 1 37:16
It’s a good question. Yeah,
Abby Wall 37:20
I feel like my brain’s bust now, like I feel like I’m on the spot.
Toban Dyck 37:23
It is, so I’m going to chat. No, it’s not. It is. I get what, how that is, I’m going to go with AB first, or we’re going to go because you cut you came at this not knowing a ton about agriculture or kind of the what birth forest group does and what the podcast is all about. And you came in as a producer, and so you’re sitting in here, you’re listening to some of this stuff for the first time. So I know like, like, has your kind of world kind of broadened?
Speaker 1 37:51
Or how does that look for you? I feel like I have actually learned quite a bit from our guests and about you guys. First time we came here, we had Daryl as our, as our, like, first kind of test episode, that’s right, and all the equipment was packed up, and it’s like, he’s coming in 20 minutes. Yes. So I learned, have learned to come early, yeah. I know our guests have been, have been really great. I’ve learned a lot of, a lot of cool things. Like, my uncle has has pigs on his farm. So I just mentioned the fact about tail docking, and my mom looked at me and was like, what? Like, yeah, bringing some of this into, I don’t know, my world, my everyday life, is good,
Toban Dyck 38:34
yeah, that’s that’s cool.
Jay Whetter 38:36
Which one was the tail docking? Was that Mark Campbell, or was it that Yolanda?
Speaker 1 38:39
I think it was Yolanda, yeah, yeah. She’s very livestock focused,
Toban Dyck 38:44
yeah, that’s right, yeah, that’s cool, bringing that in, I mean, and actually, you’re interviewing all these people, you’re kind of getting, you’re getting at, you’re having in depth conversations with all of them too. So you’re learning, you’re learning a ton, and you’re kind of, yeah, deciphering all that and bringing that, bringing that to us. So you have an interesting perspective on this podcast
Abby Wall 39:03
as well. Yeah? Well, definitely, because mine is the way I come into everything is very formulaic, like when we were planning out the podcast, the when I first sat down with you guys, and you guys were like, yeah, we’ll do pre interview. Sounds like, No, you won’t have time. I will do them. And when we did that, though, we sat down and picked out the questions that I needed to ask, and I at the start, I questioned some of those questions. But then as we got going, it was like, wait, no, these actually set you guys up for the best interviews, because I start by asking them all the guests, very common questions, things that I could find out, sometimes by Googling them, and sometimes by not, because they’re not as well known people. So I sent out biographical details. We started about how they got into their current job. And then I get to ask more communications and like extension focused and like, why? And then that’s where we throw in the questions, where I throw in the questions where I do some like, research beforehand or what. You guys have told me about why you want them on the podcast. Those are the ones that I personalize a bit. And then we end off with like, fun ones. Like, what do you do for fun when you’re not and the food, which, of course, is a Toban session, yeah, but yeah. So it’s I learned. I learned a lot of stuff too that doesn’t make into the podcast because I mine is just so formulaic. So, yeah, it’s really interesting. And I always love getting to point out if there’s something where I was like, Oh, they mentioned just this in passing, and I think there’s more here. And to, like, mention that to you guys, be like, Hey, you gotta go on about it. And then it’s really funny, because then, like, months later, after you guys have even recorded it, and Abby’s edited it, and I’m sitting there reviewing it before we go live, because someone has to sit and make sure that it sounds all correct and stuff, and that we have the ads in the right spots. Um, it’s always interesting to see how you guys took those notes that I gave or, like me reminding myself, because it’s months later being like, I forgot what I talked to this person about, yeah, interesting and yeah, like, even just like the change between the first season and the second season we were talking about this season’s just been so much more structured. And we’re not like, all running around like chickens with our heads cut off. We have, like, our recording days every month, and we sit and I get you guys on Zoom probably about every couple of months, and sit down and be like, Hey, you guys gotta, like, just tell me what you want for the next few months, and yeah, it’s just gone a lot smoother.
Jay Whetter 41:22
So have you ever had anyone say no,
Abby Wall 41:26
yes, oh yeah, I did, and then they directed us to a different guest. Yeah, yeah.
Toban Dyck 41:32
We call that one out by name. I remember this person
Abby Wall 41:37
who was wonderful, and I know here. Yeah, that also that was in the first season. Definitely in the second season, we’ve had more people knowing about us, and we have talked to some people that like also don’t even know who we are, who’s outside of the agriculture space that still agreed to come on, which is interesting too.
Jay Whetter 41:58
Well, that’s, that’s what really gets me excited, is bringing new voices to agriculture and or to prairies agriculture, yeah, because there’s so many, so much knowledge around the world and so many skills, and then, if we just keep talking to ourselves or within our own community all the time, we’re not actually reaching out to all of those experiences that could be useful for Yeah.
Abby Wall 42:18
Well, in season two, we’ve definitely one. We’ve got out of the country a lot, yeah, and two, we’ve brought people from outside of agriculture. And so there’s some interesting interviews coming up in 2026 like, even this afternoon, you guys are doing some good ones,
Toban Dyck 42:31
yeah, even developing this as a medium, right? I mean, we got into this, and you had some experience podcasting beforehand, and I didn’t have any, it’s interesting now, like, we’re getting a bit better at it, a bit more comfortable, and, yeah, thanks to the help of you guys, for sure, and then growing our listenership. But also, you know, I’m from a print background, you’re from a print background. And like, considering giving us the same value, like, this is something to kind of develop and practice and not just take flippantly, right? This is something
Jay Whetter 43:04
you want to Well, I think like the voice is kind of at the root of communication. Before there was print, for 1000s of years, there was talking, right? And so it actually feels way more natural to me just to talk to people, rather than take it and convert it to an article,
Toban Dyck 43:23
yeah, but it’s different. Like, I treat it differently, or I don’t treat it differently, and naturally treat it differently, like it just article writing. You have a process, right? You can research, you can organize, you can move graphs around. When you’re talking, it’s just, it’s different. It’s all right, here happens. It’s at the end of it, at the end of some conversations. I feel like I’ve forgotten things, right? Like you don’t have that 30,000 foot view where you can take a breather, you step back and you’re like, oh, I should, I should insert this here, put that there. It’s now, right? You have that hour with somebody, and you try to get the most out of them.
Abby Wall 43:58
I still have to do that when I’m making sure we get the ads in the right spots, right? Abby, right? But we should probably be wrapping this up, because you guys still got some other things to do today.
Toban Dyck 44:10
That’s that’s a B’s role to tell
Abby Wall 44:12
us, I’m also a person. This is me and Abby. We are a team, so we keep you guys in line. Oh, just because we were saying we’re a team and keep you
Toban Dyck 44:26
guys alive, it’s like we’re like, Yeah, us versus them. That’s right. I’m not gonna listen to that. Let’s just keep going the
Speaker 1 44:36
behind the scenes versus on camera. Yeah, yeah, divide there, yeah,
Speaker 2 44:41
but you’re right. Abby, we do need to wrap up. It was Ashley, amazing.
Toban Dyck 44:48
That’s amazing, no, but we need So from all of our guests, from all of our guests, we asked for extension tips. So this is like, this is still, this is still a podcast, still an episode for farmers. So. You know, what are your extension tips. Abby and Ashley
Jay Whetter 45:06
say their name wrong, but now I don’t even give them the right name.
Abby Wall 45:09
I think that might confuse listeners who don’t regularly hear our voices.
Jay Whetter 45:14
Yeah, Ashley, you are absolutely right. We do need to wrap this up.
Toban Dyck 45:21
Jay’s a bit flustered right now. Yeah, he’s embarrassed. I am embarrassed. He should be.
Abby Wall 45:30
Don’t fluster your host, your show.
Toban Dyck 45:33
Well, you could, you could, you could circle back on getting names right? Because he did not get his name
Abby Wall 45:39
very true. I guess I need to start bolding those on the Yeah,
Jay Whetter 45:43
you just need to have a little your name written on your forehead.
Abby Wall 45:47
Name Tags, guys, actually, that’s a good, actual Accenture and Communication chip, because I think name tags are extremely overlooked. I’ve been I’ve planned so many events over the years, and I used to never do name tags, and I would have people checking in, they’d be like, Why aren’t there name tags? And I’d be like, Oh, because it’s just too much work, but they actually make a huge difference, and that’s why I am obsessed with them for our training program. Because, like, yeah, by the second day, we probably all know each other, but still, it’s just like, it’s the it’s it’s just you have to have them. So that’s one thing, actually, is it’s a good thing is having name tags and being willing to, like, listen to people and they say, like, how to pronounce their names and stuff, that is actually a really important way of connecting and doing extension.
Speaker 1 46:34
I feel like people who are around Jay just need like, like how to pronounce their name underneath the name.
Abby Wall 46:39
Very true. I’m gonna start adding that on the training name packs.
Toban Dyck 46:42
So, I mean, so you go to a conference and you always get a lanyard that has your name, right? So what are the issues I have? Is you meet a lot of one meets a lot of people that you know, but you don’t remember their name, right? So you have to kind of secretly look pretty far down to get their name, because it’s always hangs pretty low, right? So you got to kind of right here, well, or like the Hello, my name is, which is usually right here, but so you gotta, like, you find a way to kind of so it’s not looking, you know, so obviously down there to get their name right. Yeah, I wish there was, I wish it was just better presented.
Abby Wall 47:14
We are not wearing headbands for name tags that would look ridiculous. That’d be like a charades game. Like, I know this is a holiday episode, and people will be at home with their families playing charades, but we’re not to. I’m not doing that for our name tags.
Toban Dyck 47:30
What about like 80s, like aerobics, like a headband and wristbands? We’re not getting that.
Abby Wall 47:36
We’re not doing that. Okay, Abby, what’s your extension tip? Let’s change the shot.
Speaker 1 47:42
I’m not sure. Just just, I don’t know, continue sharing, even when you’re not quite sure what, who needs to hear this message. You can, you can share it, and it’s gonna help someone.
Toban Dyck 47:53
Yeah, I like that. Just continue sharing. Yeah,
Speaker 1 47:57
that’s great. I really do think we need a bigger whiteboard, because you guys said you ignore me. In the back,
Toban Dyck 48:02
we see a big ticker, kind of on the far wall, actually.
Abby Wall 48:06
Yeah, you know who loves a flip chart, Jay. So maybe we should get Abby one too, and she can join your club.
Toban Dyck 48:14
That’d be too crinkly, though. In the on the mic there the flipping of the
Abby Wall 48:17
paper, we just got one with, like a whiteboard that, oh, yeah, yeah.
Toban Dyck 48:21
Actually was thinking of, yeah, anyway, anyway, yeah. I have some ideas.
Speaker 1 48:25
Okay, yeah, is this like leading into the room changes for
Toban Dyck 48:30
Yes, yes, just we want to do some design changes here in the studio, yeah? Well, it’s a pleasure chatting with you. Thanks for coming from behind the scenes into the front that was a it was a joy chatting with you guys heading into 2026 heading into 2026 Happy New Year. Yeah, yeah. Do you
Jay Whetter 48:59
like what you’re hearing and want to support the extensionists. If you are an agriculture company or association looking for a powerful way to get your message in front of Canadian farmers, then partner with us. Our listeners are farmers from coast
Toban Dyck 49:11
to coast. When you advertise with us, your brand isn’t just another commercial break. It becomes part of our story. Ads on the extensionists are personal and trusted. Our listeners value what they hear on the podcast,
Jay Whetter 49:24
whether you’re looking for a 62nd ad somewhere throughout the podcast, or even an exclusive episode sponsorship, we have options that will work for you.
Toban Dyck 49:33
So if you’re ready to get your message out there and connect with farmers across Canada, let’s talk. Visit theextensionists.com for more information.
Jay Whetter 49:49
Anyway, that was really interesting to hear from Ashley and Abby.
Toban Dyck 49:54
I felt nervous about it. I didn’t know what they were gonna say about us. Yeah. Well, yeah, you asked him pretty. You asked him pretty. You know, cutting questions. Yeah, I was expecting something worse. You were, except personal, like, just like, right away with the attacks, although they did attack me a couple of times they did, but it wasn’t major stuff, but like, not responding to emails and not saying people’s names, right deal. Are you gonna think about this and you’re right, hoping, oh yes, AB in my life, yeah, you’re gonna be half Jay’s gonna send you an email later tonight, probably, and be like, You know what? You’re wrong about this. And you know what? Actually, I do respond to emails in a good time.
Toban Dyck 50:35
My truth is that I never, never say. AB, are you excited for 2026? Yeah, very, yeah. I think we’re just, we’re kind of hitting our stride still. Yeah, that’s just fun, and it is great guests and learning a lot, and absolutely, absolutely, what are you going to do? A live episode at AG days, at egg days, yeah, surprise. I wasn’t like, I wasn’t like, where are we doing this guest, a surprise
Toban Dyck 51:02
guest, an idea, yeah, yeah. Well, like that. We talked about this at one point.
Toban Dyck 51:09
Abby and Ashley will pick a guest for us. And like the smartless podcast kind of approach where it’s like, Yeah, except nobody knows.
Toban Dyck 51:18
Holy cow, it’s my dad. Yeah, we like front page challenge. Yeah, not the worst idea ever. It isn’t. We won’t do that for this year’s AG, days, no, no, no. But our get, yeah, we’re getting great guests, and we’ve had great guests. The live is going to be, we say that flippantly, like, you know, it’s like, just one element of what makes 2026 like, that’s a huge one. It’s around the corner and, like, we’ve never done this before, so we’re going to have a, like, a theater full of people who hopefully will come and take this in. So we now have to,
Jay Whetter 51:51
yeah, yeah, I get butterflies, even though I’ve been doing this for so long and doing on live presentations, I still, but I kind of think that it’s probably good if I have butterflies, because I think if I don’t have butterflies, then I’d really screw things up. Well, you don’t
Toban Dyck 52:06
want to be too, like, you know, arrogant about it, where you’re just, like, I can just walk, you know, walk on. I’d still do too, I but the butterflies are different. Like, I remember the first time I did something in public, in front of people, I was like, just like, shaking uncontrollably, yeah, and Jamie says, My wife, she says she couldn’t tell, but like, there’s no way you couldn’t it was, this is many, many years ago. I still get nervous, but it’s a good nervous, yeah? I like, I like the nervousness, yeah? I get again, I get caught up in it, yeah? And it’ll be the same. This will be a lot of fun. The live, the live one will be great.
Jay Whetter 52:37
Yeah, I’m having fun, yeah, working with you on this. Yeah, me
Toban Dyck 52:40
too, for sure, pretty sure, with you and with AB and sorry, Abby, Abby, Abby and Ashley and that other person, just a bunch of prima donna jerks. I know, I know Ashley, Ashley and Abby.
Toban Dyck 52:56
Actually, it’s wonderful working with both. Yeah, for sure. We got a good team going, yeah.
Toban Dyck 53:01
And I like the trajectory. And, I mean, I definitely want, you know, to grow, to grow our listenership, get it out there lots of people know, lots of people don’t know, and and work on developing us as podcasters, right? Because it’s yeah, it’s something that needs practice, like any other extension skill, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, Happy New Year. Happy New Year everyone and see you till next time. Till next time, Jay and I’m Toban.
Toban Dyck 53:32
Okay, here we go. Okay. You ready? This has been a birth forest group production. We also want to thank the people working behind the scenes to make this podcast happen. AB. AB, do you get called that? Yes, try this again. Never, right. Oh, so surprising. This has been a birth forest group production. We also want to thank the people working behind the scenes to make this
Jay Whetter 54:01
podcast happen. Abby wall is our producer and editor. Ashley Robinson is our coordinator, and Michelle Holden is our designer. You.