Episode 11:

Justice Acoose

Transcript

Toban Dyck  00:03

This is the extensionist conversations with great thinkers in agriculture. I’m Toban Dyck and I’m Jay wetter.

Jay Whetter  00:15

Hey, Toban. Hey Jay. I was in Cornwall, England, land of the wetters last April 2024

Toban Dyck  00:23

Yeah. Let me put this Yeah. I

Jay Whetter  00:25

met a farmer named Jeremy Odie, and he has a very diverse, very interesting farm. He grows canola, while they call it rapeseed, peas, barley, wheat, malting barley for the brewers in Cornwall, he grows onions and potatoes, and he semi processes them and gets them ready to go right into bakers who bake Cornish pasties, which is like the most famous dish out of Cornwall, which is actually a hand pie that you can put in your pocket. Yeah, and yeah, that’s interesting. So Jeremy sends me an email, and he says, we’re thinking of coming to Manitoba. Can you give us a tour? Which? Has this happened already? Or is this like he hasn’t? It’s gonna happen sometime in the summer of 2025 Oh, nice, yeah. And because I think I said, I said, if you ever want to come and get a tour of Manitoba, I’ll I’ll return the favor, and he’s doing it. Watch. I think it’s so awesome. Yeah, so awesome. Yeah. So I’m definitely gonna give him a drive around and and show him the super flatness of the Red River Valley. And then I’ll go out to the more beautiful part of the province, which is where I come from, the West, western part. I

Toban Dyck  01:38

love that. I love that, like, to where, like, how often do we meet people and have those kind of conversations where it’s like, oh yeah, next time you’re out, or next time I’m out, or next time, you know, all that kind of stuff, and how many times it, you know, falls flat or just doesn’t happen, but the odd time when it does, yeah, it’s kind of fun, because you do mean it, or they do mean it when they say, next time you’re out, you should come And, like,

Jay Whetter  02:00

not very many people come to Winnipeg or for a vacation. No, but he’s, he’s making a beeline to come to, well, he’s going to Toronto, and then he’s coming to Winnipeg. And I was going to remind him how far apart they are, but, but, yeah, no, it’s going to be, it’s going to be really fun. And I did a whole article about him for for country guide. Oh, nice. And it ran sometime in the in the fall of 2024, so it’s a few months sold now. But,

Toban Dyck  02:24

yeah, that’s, that’s pretty neat. You can, you can bring them by here. Yeah, anyway,

Jay Whetter  02:29

I guess is that an extension theme? I guess it kind of is. It’s those human connections bring by the No, yeah, no. I just, I’m just thinking like I’m rambling on about this great guy I met, but, but you’ll never meet them.

Toban Dyck  02:49

We’re doing extension because we we value it.

Jay Whetter  02:52

Farmers are still looking for information, even while governments have pulled away from the job of extension so that So like you said, yeah, the needs there, and there’s fewer people actually doing extension, and so we thought we’d jump into that, and we hope that sponsors recognize that the service that we’re offering and give us some

Toban Dyck  03:10

support. As much as we are doing that because because we see a need and we have a passion for it, we’re also doing it because we see a need among some of the groups that could be sponsors, and we see that they are also looking for new ways to extend if

Jay Whetter  03:23

anybody else wants to step forward, we’d welcome their support as well. Hi justice, good to see you. MJ, we’ve met.

Toban Dyck  03:36

I’m Toban. We haven’t but I am looking forward to the next hour and

Jay Whetter  03:39

justice, I’ll introduce you. You’re a communications specialist with the National circle for indigenous agriculture and food in Regina. And Regina is your hometown, so you didn’t have to go far to find this job.

Justice Acoose  03:52

Yeah, yeah, it kind of stumbled upon me.

Jay Whetter  03:55

How? Yeah,

Toban Dyck  03:57

stumble upon you. So

Justice Acoose  03:59

I was working with the Ministry of Agriculture prior to that, and that’s where I had met Chris McKee, our Vice President of Business Development. And that’s where I also met Collie Wood, who was the who is our president and CEO. So I met Chris within my branch, and then I met Kali just in passing. And so I had, like, a bit of a relationship with them already.

Jay Whetter  04:30

And the National circle is, is brand new? So what? So they

Toban Dyck  04:35

What do you mean brand new? Like, how old is that?

Justice Acoose  04:37

Um, just we officially launched in January of this year. Oh, wow, yeah. Well, that’s incredible. Yeah. So

Jay Whetter  04:44

Collie and Chris, were they first on the scene, and then, because they had met you through your work with the Ministry of Agriculture, they really quickly brought you on board. Is that how it went? Yeah, pretty much.

Justice Acoose  04:56

So I have, like, a very small back. Around and doing some social media stuff, and they thought that that would be useful for doing their social media stuff, because I’m more well versed than they are

Jay Whetter  05:11

well and you’re sort of other generation that grew up more or less with with social media. I definitely didn’t Toban is a bit younger than me, but maybe he didn’t either, certainly didn’t grow up with it. No, yeah, no. So, so what was it about your social media experience that was interesting for them?

Justice Acoose  05:28

So in my free time, I stream, like, playing games and talking with people. So it’s kind of like this, yeah? So they use that prior experience to kind of base my experience for this position. So, streaming, okay, really, sure.

Jay Whetter  05:51

Old Man stares at cloud, or no, yells at Cloud. So is that actually a social media or is that more like when you’re playing a game, you’re you’re talking with other people, other players, is that? So it’s kind of a closed community, or is this actually something that anybody could listen in on? Unbelievable.

Justice Acoose  06:10

So it’s kind of like an all encompassing thing. As a as a streamer, you’re kind of in charge of your own social media accounts and kind of figuring out algorithms and hashtags to use, and all the hip slang and lingo and whatnot. So like, I’ve been posting on like Twitter and Instagram and whatnot. So

Jay Whetter  06:32

yeah, okay, so, so I understand all of those things, but it’s like this streaming thing, so Toban

Toban Dyck  06:37

help me out here. Well, it would be funny is because I would offer my kind of mansplaination or whatever. So mansplain to me, right? Which, which would be also completely off the mark, which would be also quite funny, but I guess I’m really exposing myself because seen this where people game, right? So there’s gaming, I think you’re referring to is like headset, like you’re talking to other players, yeah, that you’re playing with. So there’s that kind of gaming, which I just as you can interrupt. Thank you. Thank you. You can dig your own hole, right? Yeah, that’s right. So, but then there’s, there’s some of the social media channels allow you, so there’s you can, you can actually watch the person play, like, so there’d be a camera on me, okay, yeah, with the controlling, with the controller playing, and then in this corner of the screen, you’d actually have what they’re what they’re doing, what their character is doing,

Jay Whetter  07:37

yeah, okay. And so you can watch that on YouTube or whatever. Like,

Toban Dyck  07:41

there’s certain like, Twitch, I think, is one of them, or like, yeah,

Justice Acoose  07:44

yeah. So Twitch is what I use. So yeah, it’s basically I, like, I play a game. Other people will talk, and I can interact with them real time. And I like engaging with people like that. I like talking about the things that I’m playing and because I take a lot of interest in it. So

Jay Whetter  08:02

yeah, and do you have so is there any way to make that into a work conversation like this is so interesting because I’m learning something that I, like, I didn’t know anything about, but like, if we wanted to somehow engage with you, I’m not going to say younger farmers, because lots of people game, and there’s people my age who even know what you’re talking about, even though I don’t, but, but Could you, could you use that, and maybe you have used that as an extension tool. So like, or how would you, could you create a game or a world where you you lived and you did extension in the way that you’re describing. So

Justice Acoose  08:41

it’s funny that you say that there’s actually simulation games and there’s farming simulation games. I was gonna ask you. So it’s, like, it’s, it’s, like, fully in depth, like, it’s, it’s a lot of what people would normally do in culture. So, oh,

Jay Whetter  08:58

wow, yeah. So we could, so if there’s not something already, like, if you’re if you’re trying to, say, connect with indigenous youth, because I know that’s the the mandate for the National circle, well, it’s not the youth. Isn’t just the mandate. But, I mean, that’s part of the, yeah, what you’re trying to achieve. And talk about opportunities with agriculture, you’ve even even talk about farming itself, like, could you create? Do you think that would be an effective extension tool where you create a simulated prairies or Saskatchewan farm scene and have youth participate? Or, I don’t know, I just, I’m gonna let you explain how that might work, because I just love this idea. I just don’t know what I’m talking about.

Justice Acoose  09:48

I mean, I guess, yeah, it depends on how, what kind of channels you can connect with people on really, if there are people who are. Involved in agriculture, who are more inclined to playing video games. And absolutely, that could be something that would be a front. You can reach people on well,

Toban Dyck  10:08

so you asked your question,

Jay Whetter  10:10

but I just want to come back to the just really think this is so interesting, the game, the gamification. Because I, a person who is my age, said, We need to gamify I’m not using the right lingo, but, but I mean, like 100% you’re not using the right lingo, whatever. I don’t know how to cook. I think maybe some people might know what I’m talking about. But no, just because, because gaming is such a huge part of our culture. Now, it’s not mine, clearly, but, but to engage with people in a game that gets them to think about their actual, real life practices, like that, that’s but so,

Toban Dyck  10:49

so I think, like, it’s interesting, right? Because I think, like, I think you’re thinking about it as, like, building a game that could, that could kind of do extension, right? Like, like, like a simulator, but

Jay Whetter  11:01

it would be like a, you wouldn’t just be playing the game, although, like, it’s similar, but it would be like having this, like, what justice is trying to describe to me, having a conversation with the participants. Well, see

Toban Dyck  11:11

that that that’s what I’m interested. That’s, yeah, it’s interesting. Because growing up like I grew up where video games were not like, you got to get away from video games like kids are supposed to get off this. Get off the screens and go outside, right? And, you know, my wife’s doing her master’s in literacy. And there’s an appreciation for gaming as a form of literacy, as its own language, as a literacy. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a place where you learn, you just you learn, and you communicate. And I think it’s really interesting when you think about extension that that is such a, I think it’s a rich area for anyway, this is all you, justice, you’ve been

Jay Whetter  11:56

talking for 10 minutes. And justices, we’re just about 30 seconds. Introduce these old

Toban Dyck  12:00

guys new concept, and we’re so

Jay Whetter  12:04

excited justice. What kind of games do you like

Justice Acoose  12:09

to play? I play a lot of like role playing games and like first person shooters and sandbox games. I don’t know if those mean anything to you.

Jay Whetter  12:21

Well, I got one of those person shooter, yeah, sandbox. What is that? I know it’s not literally a sandbox. I mean, I’m gonna take go out on a limb there.

Justice Acoose  12:32

I mean, metaphorically, it’s a sandbox. You’re kind of given a base of tools, and you kind of built the game to be what you want it to be. It’s not like a game dev thing, but like Minecraft, um, that’s a sandbox game. I’m sure you heard of Minecraft

Toban Dyck  12:52

when you said Game Dev, I’m like, looking at, uh, anyway, yeah.

Jay Whetter  12:57

Okay, so it’s you’re building stuff, yeah, okay. Like, I think of, okay, and this isn’t, this isn’t sandbox, but Fortnite, like, because you’re actually with the game starts when there’s 100 other actual people, real people, in in the game, and then then it starts. So, I mean, I’m sure gaming is just going to keep going that way. So just to bring it back to extension, and all this rambling that I’ve done, like, do you what? When you look at your people, your age and younger, and getting them to talk about agriculture, opportunities, what, what is effective? I

Justice Acoose  13:41

think community involvement is something that’s a big something that encourages a lot of people to want to get into agriculture, something other, because people do want to, like, continue to help their community thrive. And

Jay Whetter  14:01

this is community involvement, like, real on the ground. This isn’t virtual, although it could be, I guess. But I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, you actually need to get out in the fields and do the, do the farming and take care of the livestock. So what is, what have you done, any community engagement? Yeah, like, what are some of the things that you’ve tried? Yeah, that’s

Justice Acoose  14:21

kind of a big question. I I’d like to say I’m fairly involved with my community and as in Regina, I part time two Sundays a month. I work for a harm reduction clinic as well. So that’s kind of my way of getting involved with my community,

Jay Whetter  14:45

yeah, so that the Regina community. So that’s you personally, and then with your national circle job, like, do you have you had a chance to go out into the community? And I know mean you and. I were on a bus tour together in August, and that’s when we met. We went out to calluses, and so we were in that community. But are you doing other projects like that? I know it’s new, but I mean, if you got around to getting out there and meeting with young people,

Justice Acoose  15:16

yeah, so we have, we’ve been working with the chapel waste First Nation a fair bit. We’ve established a community garden. And during harvest, they had a group of five grade six students come up to do the harvest. So that was really fun to connect with them.

Jay Whetter  15:41

Oh, that’s awesome. Was it a, like a bison harvest, or was it a green harvest? Or is it the community garden

Justice Acoose  15:49

harvest of their garden? Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,

Toban Dyck  15:51

awesome. What? What did you find? Really connected with those with those kids, just learning

Justice Acoose  15:57

with them, honestly, because I have an agricultural background, so I’m like, Oh, I don’t know. Is that the right size? Is this how far your sister dig down? Like, I just kind of talking with with Val canister, now she’s the She’s the head of the garden, and then with Michelle Sander Cox, she’s our director business development, so he’s asking them questions because of their background.

Jay Whetter  16:30

Well, I mean, we we think about talking to high school students to get them to think about opportunities in agriculture when they’re making college or university decisions, but you’re the grade six approach, like, I think there’s probably a lot to be said for that, because then that gives them that early taste of agriculture, and gives them, you know, six or whatever number of years to think about where they might want to take that. And was that a conscious approach to go after grade sixes?

Justice Acoose  17:00

It was actually the choice of, Oh, chapolies. They had students come out, and they asked us if we wanted to join them. And I’m like, Absolutely, I would love to join. And it was just fun seeing the kids like they were like, Oh, look at this corn that I have. Look at this giant potatoes.

Toban Dyck  17:20

Yeah. That is, that is fun. That is awesome, yeah. Well, what are some of the other things the national circle has done in ag,

Justice Acoose  17:26

so we have hosted a group of international students were involved in agriculture, and we gave them a tour of the First Nations University, where we used to work out of and then we gave them a tour of Bucha, Voice of their community garden. And then we also gave a presentation on us and posted lunch for them. So it was really nice to connect with them as well. They’re like early 20s students. So

Jay Whetter  17:58

why? Why is it important for you to to engage with First Nations youth, like, what? Why? Why is that? For you? Personally, really important. I think

Justice Acoose  18:10

it’s important because, from the lens of someone who isn’t involved in their in their community, like, where my family’s from. Like, it’s important to, like, really ground those roots and kind of base them off of something where you feel really connected to where you’re from. And once you, like, build that connection, I feel like it goes a long way to not only connect with other people, but to like future generations as well. Hmm,

Toban Dyck  18:46

are you? Are you connecting with with farmers as well? Like, is it? Is it like? Is it a connection that with like, indigenous youth? Are you connecting them with with other farmers? Or, how does that? How does that look? I guess

Justice Acoose  19:01

it kind of depends on what their goals are. So we’ve connected with youth and entrepreneurs and farmers. I do know that Terry Laurent, who’s a reconcili egg advisor, and he runs cows, is the four seat farms. I know that he’s got his grandson who’s going to be taking over his farm. So, like, it’s, it’s really nice to hear stories like that, because it helps give perspectives of two different people, like the generation that wants to pass it down and the generation that wants to take it over. Then you can kind of get both sides of the coin,

Jay Whetter  19:44

like most of the First Nations land on the prairies is not farmed by first nations like Terry Laura or Laurent at 4c is is is an exception. I mean, there are others too, but I mean, is? Something that the National circle for indigenous ag and food, and you would like to see like is this is an objective to see more First Nations farming their own land. Absolutely,

Justice Acoose  20:14

I think it’s important for the people who live on the land to be able to reap the benefits of of their their own land, yeah, yeah, yeah. And

Jay Whetter  20:29

how does that like? What are the challenges?

Justice Acoose  20:34

I guess one big challenge would be ensuring that they have that land acquired. I know in a lot of cases, they probably don’t even own the land that’s should be theirs,

Jay Whetter  20:46

the individual or the are we talking about the nation itself? Yeah,

Toban Dyck  20:52

is there a way? Like, it’s a big, big question justice, but is there a way, like, for me as a as a grain farmer in southern Manitoba, would there be a way for me to connect with the like indigenous people who first settled and grew stuff on my on the land that I now farm? Would there be a way for me to kind of figure out how or to find this group and to like and what, what does reconciliation look like for, or could it look like for for me,

Justice Acoose  21:31

I think that would require just learning and just trying to dig into who did I get this land from? Like and then kind of another, there’s like maps of which indigenous nations were in what areas. And I’ve stumbled upon this interactive map, actually, that shows what kind of like first nations were in what areas and what languages they speak. I think it’s really interesting.

Toban Dyck  22:05

Yeah, that is, if you, if you wouldn’t mind actually sending it to to us, that would be, that’d be fantastic. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And

Jay Whetter  22:15

just, just to build on what Toban was asking you, like in general, what, what do you need from the whole prairies community, like, just so that we’re not putting the First Nations communities in their in their own little space? I mean, we’re part of or part of the prairie prairies together. What? What do you need from, from non Indigenous people involved in agriculture? Is there, is there an ask? Is there something you’d like people to keep in mind?

Justice Acoose  22:52

I think just keeping an open mind and being open to learning, because I do find that a lot of a lot of misconceptions can be based on people not being educated enough. Yeah,

Jay Whetter  23:08

what and does that? Does that affect you, like you personally? Do you? How does it feel going out into small towns? Like is it? Are we? Is it? Is it comfort for you, or is there do you always feel some tension? I’m just wondering what it’s like for you. I

Justice Acoose  23:30

guess there’s two different perspectives there. As an indigenous person, yeah, there’s a bit of apprehension. I I lost my train of thought. I

Jay Whetter  23:47

mean, that’s a heavy question. And I mean, we can move on. I do want to talk about your mom’s community, the zagamy. Is that? How you say it, zagamy, yeah, zagamy, okay, and that’s the eastern part of Saskatchewan. Did you spend time there as a kid like, do you feel like you’re connected to that community?

Justice Acoose  24:09

No, unfortunately, not. I grew up in the concrete jungle, and so did my mom and her siblings. So we have been in the city for a couple generations, but since I began working for the circle, I have felt more like inclination to finding my roots again, and kind of like replanting myself into my roots, because I do feel disconnected.

Jay Whetter  24:39

You haven’t done it yet, or you Is it a slow process? Or how does that work?

Justice Acoose  24:44

It’s a bit of a slow process. I like, I’m I’m not treaty, and so I just kind of feel like disconnected from my own people in that sense, like I. Yeah, it’s kind of interesting. And because my mom and her siblings didn’t grow up on the reserve either, it’s it’s kind of hard to form those connections in the first place.

Jay Whetter  25:14

Is that, right? Yeah, do you have distant relatives there? Like, would that be the way to kind of ease into or make those connections again.

Justice Acoose  25:25

Yeah, actually, all the increases are related. So, I mean, the chief is related to me somehow. I don’t know how, but

Jay Whetter  25:39

I was looking at Zagami online. And I don’t know whether this was up to date, but the chief was a woman, and maybe that’s still your relative, but I think six or so, five or six of the counselors were also women, and I thought that was that was kind of interesting. I don’t know whether that’s common, but, but do you think I mean that as as agriculture is adopted, and I mean, I mean the grandmothers as the farmers and the food providers is, I think, a big part of the history. So do you feel like women will will be important leaders as this goes forward. Or does it matter? Like Jen Does, does gender really matter? I think

Justice Acoose  26:30

it would be nice to see a lot of strong women leadership. Yes, I do think that is important. There are a lot of sacred values and traditions that can be passed on through a woman, but it doesn’t also need to be like gender based, yeah? Because for even indigenous people are kind of breaking out of the gender norms, because there are gender norms within indigenous cultures as well. I

Toban Dyck  27:03

don’t know if we do, I don’t we’ve talked about this yet, but what, what does like? What does the national circle do? Like? What is its mandate

Justice Acoose  27:13

to act as the bridge between indigenous people and community and government, academia and like minded organizations.

Toban Dyck  27:25

Are you actively finding kind of opportunities or do or to do people come to you? Or is it a bit of both? Or, how does that? How does that

Justice Acoose  27:32

look? It is a lot of both. We do have people coming to us as they hear what our organization does not only producers, but also people who want to help producers, but also we’re out trying to get the word out of our organization what we can do to help. So we’ve gone to several events over the past year. We’ve gone to powwows and we’ve gone to agriculture conferences all across the nation, and Chris and colleague have actually gone down to the states for a couple of egg conferences. It’s just, it’s incredible that once people hear about what we do, how many people contact us after

Toban Dyck  28:18

is that right?

Jay Whetter  28:19

Huh? And you make a good point that this isn’t, it’s based in Regina, but it’s not a Saskatchewan institution. It’s prairies and even national Yeah, yeah, that’s

Toban Dyck  28:29

interesting. So if you go to an ag conference, like a traditional ag conference, and unlike we, you’re there, what are you what are you telling kind of attendees that really that you find really resonates with them.

Justice Acoose  28:44

I think one key takeaway people have is that we are hoping to be a business, business accelerator for for indigenous businesses and entrepreneurs.

Jay Whetter  29:00

Have you had conversations about that? Yet,

Justice Acoose  29:05

we’ve had a few entrepreneurs who have furthered their business through us. We have a woman who has a premium like Bannock mix, and we’ve helped her with, like, get funding for labeling and packaging, and she moved from creating her product out of her home to like, a facility that produces it. So it’s it’s really cool to see where our work gets us, and not only gets us, but gets other people because we’re not doing we’re not profiting from these people with their businesses. We’re just the bridge between the two, like the funding and the entrepreneur, or the funding and the business. And it’s amazing to see and hear the stories.

Toban Dyck  29:57

Yeah? I believe you.

Jay Whetter  29:58

Yeah. Well. What’s the most rewarding part of your job so far?

Justice Acoose  30:04

I love just being able to connect with people honestly, like being able to hear different stories and be able to take part in different things, like with a chapel ace, I was able to go there for the cultivation of the land, and then the seeding ceremony, and then the harvest. Like, it’s amazing to be able to see it like beginning to end, and this is to be able to see it next year. I’m so excited.

Jay Whetter  30:36

Is this the community garden again, or is this full scale farms? Yeah, yeah.

Justice Acoose  30:40

So they, they are working on more funding for an orchard, and it’s just incredible to see how far they’re going.

Jay Whetter  30:51

What is, what is it about a chap waste that we can learn from? Like, is it? Is it the is it about the one person that leader, Ms canistan, oh, I don’t, can’t remember if he said that was the chief, but that, I know you did mention her. Does that? Is that where it starts? Is one good leader, or is there something else about a chap waste that creates a good model for other places? I

Justice Acoose  31:19

think, like there’s a few members of the of Coach appleies who we’ve worked with. There’s Lester Henry as well. He’s one of the elders, I think, being able to build the relationship with them, because Michelle and Chris have been having conversations with ochapoe since before I started. So these conversations were already being had and meetings being held, like surveying the land and the like the soil levels and water source, and because they’re like, where their community garden is situated. It’s really close to Regina, so they’re kind of like our pilot, right for seeing what needs to be done for community garden, and we’re both learning together in this process.

Jay Whetter  32:15

And when do you when do you feel like you’ll have something that you can take and then say, if another First Nation was interested, you could say, Okay, we’ve got this person from a trap waste, and maybe I’ll join, and we’ll come and we’ll show we’ll show you how to do it. So you’re like you said, it’s that person to person contact, and you’re actually taking these ideas right into the community. Like, are you to the point now where in 2025 you can start taking that approach and sharing it around.

Justice Acoose  32:44

It’s funny that you say that, because just on the 30th of October, we had a round table with about 30 attendees, and they’re all from different communities within Saskatchewan, I think some from Manitoba as well, and Alberta, and then some people who work within like governments, who have helped their projects. So some of the projects were the community gardens and orchards, and we compiled information from those projects into a binder, and we actually handed out binder to the community members to take that information for any of the projects that they’re going to be working on. So we’ve, we’ve kind of already had that conversation.

Toban Dyck  33:36

That’s awesome. Yeah, no, for sure,

Jay Whetter  33:38

like when you think of your communications training, and we kind of talked about the best way, and we the community, and we had that fun conversation about gaming, which we can come back to at any time. But are there other techniques that you look forward to trying? Like, This podcast is about extension, which, like, it’s kind of an old term, but it’s like a government term where you took an agriculture idea or research and you extended it to the farmers. So there’s often real, real people working in local offices doing that extension. So that’s where we got our podcast name. And I’m just thinking like it and communications is a huge part of sharing agriculture knowledge. So I’m wondering what, what ideas you’d like to try in this, this extension, this idea of extending ideas or extension.

Justice Acoose  34:32

So there’s a few programs that we have coming up and are hoping to pilot next year that I would kind of like to integrate with social media. So one of them is a cookbook with recipes and ingredients from a First Nation community or an elder, where it will share and like pass down the knowledge to the youth. And what I’d like to implement with that is creating a video and having like, demonstrations of creating a recipe, or, like, cooking a recipe, and the elder sharing their story and what resonates with them about this specific dish that they want to share. So I’d like to implement that as like a sort of ongoing series for our social media platforms.

Jay Whetter  35:26

Yeah, how are we with capturing all of the knowledge in the heads of elders, like, is that? Are we? Are we good at that? Now, have we? Have we captured that knowledge like this, the cookbook, I think, is a excellent way to to remember those old recipes and practices. And your manual on how to grow gardens with with elders input like, is there more work to do in in capturing these, this, this knowledge? I think so.

Justice Acoose  36:00

I think there’s a lot of work that can be done to really help memorialize, I guess, the kind of information that they have and to keep it alive. We have another partnership with a lady who created the app where it’s kind of like like social media, but it’s more like private, and people can upload like pictures and videos and share like audio clips and people can comment on it, but it’s kind of like a way to to keep that alive. So we’re going to be implementing that with a few things as well,

Jay Whetter  36:43

and just that. I mean, for you, is this all very rewarding? Like it sounds like it would be, but, I mean, does it? Does it feel like you’re doing good work? Yeah,

Toban Dyck  36:52

what gets you most excited?

Justice Acoose  36:55

Yeah, I I honestly say that I love my job and I don’t know how many people can really say that and genuinely mean it, but just every, every aspect of my job, I just love.

Jay Whetter  37:12

How could the greater agriculture community help you? Like is there? Is there something you wish you could do more of that? You just need some, some help. I

Justice Acoose  37:22

just wish that we could break down barriers and just get rid of, like, any sort of, like, negative history that people remember, of like, some people still have their like, their stereotypes that they think of people from either side of it, like from indigenous people or from other like government or academia or anyone else. I think there just needs to not be like a divide like people. Doesn’t surprise

Jay Whetter  37:56

you that it’s still like in the in this world of sort of easy access, social media, all these, these online communities, does it surprise you that those barriers are still still so strong? Doesn’t unfortunately, no,

Justice Acoose  38:13

it doesn’t surprise me at all.

Jay Whetter  38:17

I just remember something Eugene Ross told me, and he’s an elder at Sioux valley near Brandon, and he says, like, we’ve been living side by side for 150 years, and you still don’t know who we are. And I thought, wow, that is that is amazing. Yeah. So does that? How is that? How it feels from your perspective? Or maybe Regina is different because you grew up in Regina, but yeah,

Justice Acoose  38:40

I don’t think it’s really that much different. I think across Canada, it’s not going to be much different. Unfortunately, yeah, that’s that’s the way it seems. Do

Toban Dyck  38:53

you have a sense of how those barriers can be broken down? I

Justice Acoose  38:58

think that just comes back again to just being open and wanting to learn, because it does come down to just miseducation and not knowing

Toban Dyck  39:10

when you’re at these events. Do you get a sense that there is an interest in in wanting to learn?

Justice Acoose  39:16

Oh, yeah, absolutely like there’s people who always want to hear, especially when you’ve got such a powerful voice on stage like Kali. Kali can really get a whole crowd listening to what she has to say, because of how she says it and just what she has to share. I think she always has a powerful, resonating message.

Jay Whetter  39:40

Sorry to I just, I get excited, and then I just start wanting to, but so can you, can you tell me how she does it?

Justice Acoose  39:51

I wish I knew she’s just she, I think it’s just her personality and her conviction in her voice that can really get the attention. Question of people like she’s just, every time she stands up, I just want, I’m excited to hear what she has to say. That might be biased, though,

Jay Whetter  40:10

but that is a gift, isn’t it, to be able to to speak and engage and just get and inspire people. Is that? Is that what she ultimately tries to do is, is inspire,

Justice Acoose  40:21

yeah, yeah. I think that’s, I think that’s very much she likes to do. I think that’s what one of her goals is, for sure.

Jay Whetter  40:30

And is that needed? Like, is that like, when you think of the youth who you’re really passionate about, like, is is, is there a need for someone like Kali to inspire them?

Justice Acoose  40:49

I don’t think there’s necessarily need for someone like Kali to inspire them. I think there’s just a need for someone like Kali to inspire someone within a community to help spark like it just, it’s like wildfire. If it starts with one person, I think it’ll spread to a lot of people. Like, I think it just needs to connect with one person.

Jay Whetter  41:11

Well, I think you, I mean, do you feel like that could be you like you? Do you have ambition? Like, do you see how you could really make a difference? I

Justice Acoose  41:24

like to think that I do. I can’t say for sure that I think that that could be me. I don’t know if I have I don’t think I’m convincing enough, but I do like to share the story of my organization and the work that I do with people, because I’m excited about it. I’m excited about my work, and I share it with anyone, even if they have no idea what I’m talking about.

Toban Dyck  41:51

But does, does the does the national circle? Like, have a, have a, like, operate on a, like, a grand vision for agriculture in Canada, like how it would like to see it change, or what is the ideal? I

Justice Acoose  42:06

think the grand vision would be just having indigenous people included the same way as every other producer is, and making sure that they have the same access and the same support as every other producer. Hmm,

Toban Dyck  42:23

yeah, it’s an equal playing field for everyone. Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. It’s so would you think national circle quite new? You said January of this year, which is that’s, that’s quite, quite new. What does growth look like? Is it, you know, are you setting up like bureaus and other provinces, or what does that? What does that look like for you? Yeah,

Justice Acoose  42:46

I would think that we would like to get a more like we we are involved nationally, like coast to coast, but I think it’s a matter of having more bodies, and I know that we’re looking at setting up offices in other cities. So I think in the grand scheme of things, we’d have multiple offices across Canada with staff, so that there isn’t a disconnect with our staff, who are only in Regina, right? Yeah, and we do have other staff, like, we’ve got a secondment with Wendy Carnegie. She’s, she’s with the government of Manitoba. I think,

Toban Dyck  43:36

as Manitobans, we should know, but we don’t.

Justice Acoose  43:40

So she’s been working with us as well. So it’s nice to know that we have, we’ve already got legs in other places. Is

Toban Dyck  43:52

there, is there a way for like, you know, like me as a farmer, and other farmers who are going to be listening to this, to support the National circle in any way, or what can we do?

Justice Acoose  44:05

I guess, if there was a way for anyone else to support it would be to share who we are and what we do and what we’re passionate about.

Jay Whetter  44:14

Do you? Do you talk to your mom about the job? She

Justice Acoose  44:18

was the first person I told all right on, yeah, and she, she tells other people about me.

Jay Whetter  44:25

She’s very proud of you. Yeah, that’s excellent. And what is that? What is what you’re doing mean to her?

Justice Acoose  44:32

It’s a lot of jargon to her, because, again, we did grow up within, within the city, so yeah, she doesn’t really have any familiarity with agriculture, either, but she’s she’s excited regardless,

Jay Whetter  44:47

yeah, and Tiana, who I met, she was a summer student. She mean, when I saw the two of you, I. In the field that day, I thought, this is these are two people who are really incredibly valuable people. And you were just so, really, so interested in, in the crops and the plants and how they grew and what they looked like. Can’t like. So if you look at back at the last year, is there a moment that you’re really excited, like you would tell your mom about, or tell any about, or tell us about, like, is there something? Was there a moment where you just realized that, yeah, I’m doing the right thing?

Justice Acoose  45:28

Yeah, I think just any event that I get to attend, like, I can’t really pinpoint one thing, but like, when we hosted our AGM, it was exciting to see all of those, like, you know, the big suits in the room. And then our, like, the international students, that was so cool to see that they’re like, how engaged they were, even though they’re not even from Canada. And then our, our indigenous ag tour that was also really like, it’s just cool to see the things that we plan, and seeing the turnout for them is so exciting to me.

Jay Whetter  46:10

Yeah, and just think back to your, you know, when you first met Chris and colleague in your your time with the Ministry of Agriculture. What were you what got you into that job in the first place? Like, how did you find agriculture? Then, with your Yeah,

Toban Dyck  46:30

yeah. And, like, Further to that, what were you doing at the Ministry of Ag, but yeah, so,

Jay Whetter  46:33

yeah. So let’s do Yeah. So how did, how did you find how did that open up? How did that opportunity open up for you? And then what did you do at the ministry? Yeah, so

Justice Acoose  46:43

I had applied to the summer student position, and it was just like, just to the ministry, like, or, sorry, just to the government of Saskatchewan, okay, to their summer student program. So I didn’t really get a choice on which ministry I was going to be with, and I was studying office administration at the time, so I got, I got a phone call from someone with the Ministry of Ag, asking if I wanted to come in for an interview. And I was like, yep. So it was at the livestock branch with the Ministry of Agriculture, and I was reconciling files for them. Okay,

Jay Whetter  47:25

wow. I mean, that was your first introduction deduction, I think, well, that might finish me off. Well,

Toban Dyck  47:31

no, I think your question is even more interesting, but you actually stayed with agriculture.

Jay Whetter  47:39

Yeah, that’s amazing. So thank goodness for Collie and Chris bringing you over to the for the National circle. Because I’m not sure that would have been a real long lasting job, but I don’t want to assume so it was, was reconciling files, interesting.

Justice Acoose  48:02

So I’ve got ADHD. So monotonous work is kind of nice sometimes, because I know what to expect. But after my summer, I was asked back by my director if I wanted to come back and work part time while I was still in classes. So I did that for another three months, and then I was tapped on the shoulder to ask if I wanted to do an interview for a different position, which was an administrative position with a different branch, which I ended up doing for 15 months. Yeah, okay, yeah. So I didn’t stay in the reconciliation. Oh, yeah,

Jay Whetter  48:40

okay, but it was still within, within agriculture, yeah, yeah, right. Well, when we asked you to be on this podcast, it might have seemed like it was out of the blue, but I was just so impressed meeting you. It was there something that you wrote down that you thought I really want to talk to Jay and Toban about this? Like, was there something that you you really wanted to talk about that we haven’t had a chance to

Justice Acoose  49:06

talk about? Um, not necessarily. Was those were kind of like, what can I bring?

Jay Whetter  49:14

Yeah, and, I mean, I’m to bring it full circle back to that conversation at the beginning, where I was completely lost, but I I was, I can’t, I can’t think of any word, but with gamify, but I was talking with someone else my age about how it is it actually could be a critically important tool to reach any young person involved in really any industry. I mean, it seems like a good way to to teach a good a new like, I like hearing about new extension tools, and this is the first time I’ve thought about, yeah, these online gaming based communities, but to build a knowledge. Right through that, I just, it’s really exciting for me, like, and do you, how would you envision that if you were to take on

Toban Dyck  50:13

someone was to say, like, here’s a project. It’s big in scope, but we want you to lead

Jay Whetter  50:17

it. Yeah, I want you to design right? Yeah,

Toban Dyck  50:22

go ahead. Mike’s yours justice.

Justice Acoose  50:29

So like, in regards to like, like gaming,

Jay Whetter  50:34

yeah? Like, if we went to some game designer and said, We want to engage young people in agriculture, show them all the opportunities within agriculture, and we want it to be fun, like fun, like a game. Now go and build us something like, seriously, I think there’s something there. I do think a

Justice Acoose  51:00

lot of that with, like, like, the farming simulation I was telling you about, yeah, um, I do know people who play that like they don’t even have an agricultural background, and they play it for hours like they’re out there, like my combine, like buying cattle. And

51:18

so I’m

Toban Dyck  51:21

not, I mean, you don’t want to make a game so super interesting, yeah, because that now we’re talking about, like, we don’t actually need to develop anything. It’s happening. So actually, how do we, how do we get into those conversations, right? How do we, how do we join, participate and

Jay Whetter  51:33

make that but, like, so there’s learning, but it’s fun. Like Grand Theft Auto say you don’t want to learn how to steal cars and drive around and run over people, but, I mean, like, that’s, that’s fun in that, that simulated world, I guess, but, but, yeah, I mean, it’s got to be something that people will spend four or five hours a day doing. You don’t want it, doesn’t want to have. You don’t want it to feel like work. I do you have any other

Toban Dyck  52:01

questions I could talk about? Yeah. I mean, I could have a lot more questions, but we should probably I couldn’t

Jay Whetter  52:07

talk about gaming for hours. I’m already way out of my depth, but I do really like the idea justice and Thanks for Thanks for sharing that I really enjoyed. I really enjoyed the conversation Absolutely. And I I want to stay connected with the National circle for indigenous, indigenous agriculture and food. I think it’s a, it’s a really initiative, interesting initiative, and and this, this idea that we’re all mean, we’re all prairie folk. How do we work better together? How do we make this a community where everyone participates?

Toban Dyck  52:41

Yeah, and we’ll certainly share on our feeds about about what the national circle does. And I’d love that that interactive map, I think would be, would be fantastic as well. But yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for taking the time.

Justice Acoose  52:53

Yeah, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Jay Whetter  52:59

So that was a great conversation. Yeah, yeah. I mean, justice is fairly new in the job, so it was tough. We put her in a tough spot because we were asking her all these questions about, you know, extension techniques that she really doesn’t have a ton of experience with. But at the same time, it’s really important to to connect with younger people who have a different idea of how to to get ideas across. And we probably flogged the the game idea to death in that conversation. But I really, I really like, I really like it. And you could tell I was probably getting a little too excited about that. But yeah, you need to calm down a little

Toban Dyck  53:42

bit, but, but I do think that’s a really important element of this, all right, because this, this podcast, is about extension. And that is a, that is a, I think, a relatively, at least by us, unexplored extension medium is gaming, but it is such a huge part of so many people’s lives. Like it really is,

Jay Whetter  54:06

well, it’s twice the size of as the film industry or something like that. I, you know, don’t, but I’ve heard massive stats. Like,

Toban Dyck  54:13

yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, my wife teaches grade four. Like, it’s just, it’s a like, it’s a part of the fabric of kids life. It’s just they game, and I’m like, yeah, it’s, I find it fascinating, because it’s a stigma. Like, when I was a kid, it was always like, don’t do it right, like you’re gonna rot your brain. But like, that is so not the case. Like It Is it just it’s engaging, like we heard, like she talks with people while she’s giving. And I think it’s a great way for people to find community. And, yeah, learn, you know,

Jay Whetter  54:49

have you been to a First Nation

Toban Dyck  54:54

in earnest? No, yeah, no.

Jay Whetter  54:57

And I mean growing up, I grew. Up in southwest Manitoba, and we played baseball against Sioux Valley. So for from time to time, we would go up to Sioux Valley and play baseball games. But no, it was not like, like Eugene Ross told me, we’ve been living side by side for all of these years, and there’s not, not a lot of of of meshing, of of community,

Toban Dyck  55:22

yeah, that was those, those poignant, like that, that like, and you don’t know who we are, yeah,

Jay Whetter  55:27

it’s amazing. It

Toban Dyck  55:28

is it, is I, yeah, I, yeah. It was. It was interesting. Hearing her talk about, you know, breaking down, breaking down barriers. And I think that’s, I think that’s like, that’s important, and

Jay Whetter  55:40

that’s one of the things that the National circle is trying to do, is it’s not, I mean, obviously indigenous agriculture and food is is within the title, but, but it’s about reaching out to the to the whole community of agriculture on the prairies and In Canada, it’ll be really interesting to see how the organization builds and adapts on that.

Toban Dyck  56:06

Yeah, I agree. I could see there being a lot of interest. Actually, I’m not surprised when she said, when they go to events, that there’s lots of lots of engagement. Yeah, it’s, yeah, I think, like, I think it’s something that hangs over a lot of farmers heads, like, just, you know, just even, you know, some may not think about it, like, too, too deeply, but even just the curiosity of of even agricultural practices that have that have that aren’t around anymore, right? Like, and what it used to look like, and, you know, and some of those things I know, I’m, like, very curious about that. And, yeah,

Jay Whetter  56:52

anyway, yeah, Justice ACUs, very interesting. And I really appreciate her jumping on the call with us. I mean, that’s like I said, She’s, she’s bringing new ideas, but doesn’t have a ton of experience yet, but it was sure great to hear from her.

Toban Dyck  57:08

Yeah, it was. I enjoyed that. Thanks

Jay Whetter  57:12

for listening. This has been the extensionist. We are the extensionists. Conversations with great thinkers in agriculture. I’m Jay wetter and I’m Toban Dyck. Thanks Thanks for listening. Till next time. This has been a burr forest group production, we also want to thank the people you don’t see.

Toban Dyck  57:30

We’re here. We’re chatting away with our guests, but there’s tons of people who work behind the scenes to make this podcast happen. Brian Sanchi is our director, Ashley Robinson is the coordinator, and Abby walls, our

Jay Whetter  57:41

producer and editor. You.