Episode 24:

Gerry Friesen

Transcript

Toban Dyck  00:03

This is the extensionist conversations with great thinkers in agriculture. I’m Toban Dyck and I’m Jay Wen.

Jay Whetter  00:15

Hey, Toban, Hey, Jay. We’re going to be talking with Jerry Friesen today. Excited about it. I am too, yeah, and in the podcast, I hope I get to why I thought I would want to talk to him, or why we might enjoy it. But I wrote a column for canola digest in in the September issue, and it was about social sustainability.

Toban Dyck  00:40

What is, what is that

Jay Whetter  00:41

social sustainability? It’s just like, Yeah, really good question. How do you define all of these sustainable so we have, we have in agriculture, there are three sustainability plot platforms. One is economic. You need to be you need to make money to be sustainable. One is environmental. So you need to protect the farm and the land in order to be sustainable, sustainable. And the other one is social. So you actually need, you need your social fabric. You need your family. You need yourself, kind of operating at a at a good social level to be sustainable. And I think it’s more community that’s community related. It’s wrapped communities wrapped communities wrapped up in that. But it could you mean you consider even your own individual sustainable? Do I have the the the strength or the supports right to stay at this job anyway? So I wrote about how it was two, two visits to a local one was to a local bar, the Hartney Motor Inn, and then the other one was to the Collins motel in Pilot Mound, Manitoba. And I went there in the morning, like 645 is what, how I wrote it. And I stayed for an hour and a half and just had coffee with the people who come in and have coffee on a on a regular, everyday basis, yeah, just kind of jumped right into the comment. Like, it was not deep, not the call in.

Toban Dyck  02:09

Was it, was it, was it like, was it strange you were there? Like, was it was it like, it was totally welcomed, yeah. Like, were you a presence that had to be explained? No, well,

Jay Whetter  02:19

I mean, I explained why I was there. And I was there because it was the overnight stop for the Manitoba canola growers research camp. Oh, yeah, yeah. So we’re so we’re having breakfast at 815 but I got up earlier because I just wanted to go and see what was going on in the restaurant. Yeah. And so I sat right in this, like, it’s a big horseshoe shaped bar, and I got right in there and was gonna part of the conversation, and we were drinking coffee, and the server was, you know, laughing and joking, and it was really valuable. No, that’s awesome. And I was thinking, for the people who go every day like, it must be so important, I feel like it I’m just saying, I’m projecting, like I feel like it’s a really essential, important part of their day, and it’s part of their social sustainability. To use that word again, and I think we don’t value that enough. It’s

Toban Dyck  03:12

almost like I was gonna say it’s almost like we don’t even recognize it as a as an element how important that is. Yeah, no, I would agree. I mean, my dad goes to triangle Oasis every morning, and that’s, that’s an important part of his routine, right?

Jay Whetter  03:28

And do you have routines like that? Or, how do you, how do you connect socially with with agriculture? I mean, this podcast is one way, I suppose, but

Toban Dyck  03:37

it is, and, I mean, and it would be, it would be going to, like the conferences, the major kind of ag conferences that I that I go to, and I love them like I know there’s members of the birth force group, team that you know maybe like, don’t like as much as I do, but I that’s I find that they fill me up like I you meet the same people you know on a regular basis, and you have these conversations that you might only Have once or twice a year, but I love them. Yeah, they’re important.

Jay Whetter  04:05

So I guess the risk in agriculture is that there’s fewer and fewer farmers. Their small towns are, you know, some of the small towns are really struggling. So do, I guess, do what you can to to create a community for yourself. Yeah? And,

Toban Dyck  04:22

I mean, we’re going to be talking with Jerry. It says it’s, it’s going to be a conversation, I hope, about what mental health and egg and like, I think that’s such an important topic. Like, it really is. So these, these, yeah, these, these, these things that people do, I think are great. And I think recognizing them as or what they are. Like, they’re like, they’re important. And, I mean, you know, and, and they do without them, yeah? Like, well, you know, I bet a lot of these farmers would be different without that. Yeah, no, I think it’s really cool. Look, really looking forward to the conversation. Well, that’s. Benefit. Let’s do it. But before we start today’s interview, we want to thank our episode sponsor, Alberta canola,

Toban Dyck  05:13

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Toban Dyck  05:49

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Jay Whetter  06:15

Welcome Jerry. Our guest today is Jerry Friesen. He’s a farmer from near wabanesa Manitoba, and he’s also author of a book called The recovering farmer.

Gerry Friesen  06:23

Welcome. Thanks for having me, Jay, great to have you, yeah, yeah.

Toban Dyck  06:27

So great to have you, yeah.

Jay Whetter  06:28

So, I mean, we, our podcast is about extension obviously, and we’re going to get to extension conversations, but, but I think that the key take home from from our conversation today will be sort of the mental frame of mind and how important that is to to receiving messages and feeling like you’re, you’re part of something.

Gerry Friesen  06:50

Yeah, it’s such an important topic, and it seems to be coming more and more important each year, each day, each week. Yeah?

Toban Dyck  06:57

So I would, I would agree, no, I’ve been really, I’ve been looking forward to this. This is a, I think this is a very important topic. And I think that it’s, yeah, I don’t know what you Jay, but I mean, like, when you talk about kind of mental health and agriculture, what I wrestle with, even before starting this conversation is just how like, and I imagine anybody who talks to you about this wrestles with it, like, how, how deep are we gonna? How deep Am I gonna let myself go? Right, right?

Gerry Friesen  07:30

Well, and that’s an interesting point Toban, and perhaps even part of the reason I wrote the book is is, and I was telling Abby before we started here, that sometimes I wonder why I did it, and yet, I think it’s important to dive down. I think it’s important to share stories, because it’s in sharing stories that people find out that, number one, they’re not alone, right? Everybody out there is experiencing it to some degree, some worse, not some not so bad. And so whatever we talk about will be helpful to someone,

Toban Dyck  08:03

yeah, so I can only imagine. I know we’re going to talk about some lighter stuff too. Like, you’re, you know, Veronica and all that, all that kind of fun, fun stuff. We’ll, we’ll educate Jay on some of these, some of these things. But did you when you wrote your book, and the book is the recovering farmer, did you were you confronted with that too, like, how deep or how vulnerable are you going to let yourself?

Gerry Friesen  08:26

Oh, very much so Toban. And in fact, there are some chapters in there that dive deep into some of the stuff I dealt with. And one that comes to mind is addictions, right? I used alcohol to cope, and that just led to bigger problems. And so when I would dive into that and reflect back to those times, it made me pause, and in fact, at times, made me put the whole project aside because I just didn’t want to go there anymore. And yet, at the end of the day, it was incredibly therapeutic, because very often people that deal with the mental illnesses that I deal with, anxiety and depression, often look back, look in the rear view mirror and think life was a waste, right? And yet, as I found out, reflecting back, yes, there was some garbage that I would just as soon not have remembered, but there was a lot of good stuff too.

Toban Dyck  09:25

Yeah, were there? Were you gonna ask?

Jay Whetter  09:28

Well, you used you said you wondered why you did it, as in writing the book I did. So why did you wonder?

Gerry Friesen  09:39

You know, Jay, if I had the answer, I give it to you, but I still sometimes wonder, although the response I’m getting from a lot of the people that read it is very positive, it’s helpful, and when I hear that, perhaps some messaging in my book has helped someone turn their life into something. More positive. It’s worth it, right? Yeah. But people ask me why I wrote it, yeah. And I can’t clearly answer that question,

Jay Whetter  10:08

did you start the project for yourself? Like, as it as, you know, therapy for yourself? Was it was a journaling

Gerry Friesen  10:15

that led to the book? Or, well, okay, I started, I started a writing project in 2010 that’s 15 years ago. Someone challenged me to write a weekly blog. So I did that.

Jay Whetter  10:26

And on this topic, were you already kind of thinking about this, or

Gerry Friesen  10:29

did he Oh, yeah, no, yeah. We go back in my history. That was right around, well, it was three years after I started doing some work for the Manitoba farm and rural stress line. I was diagnosed in 2004 so all these years later, I was understanding mental illness better. I had been challenged to talk about it publicly. I had started doing that. And so I started writings. And so you know what? Some of the blogs are on mental health. Some of them are on the conflict management work I do in another in my other life. Some of them are storytelling. Some of them, occasionally I try and try and be a little humorous, right? Just whatever. And so to your answer to your question is, in a sense, it was journaling. And then I would tell a story. And someone said, Well, you should write a book, because, of course, you guys know all too well in farming, you have all kinds of stories you can tell, right? And then I would relate some other stuff, and they’d say, Well, you should write a book. And so at some point I started, at the end of the day, did I write it for anybody? Specifically, probably, as you just hinted at, probably for myself,

Toban Dyck  11:41

yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s probably what makes it powerful too, is that you wrote it for yourself, right?

Gerry Friesen  11:47

Yes. And you know what, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve always had a curiosity for why I am the way I am and who I am, and why am I dealing with the stuff I’m dealing with? And so that curiosity leads me to exploring stuff. I mean, the book came out a year ago, this last winter, actually, I was doing some other experimenting with medication, and I’ve written another chapter I could add to it, right? And it’s going to continue, because I’m on a journey that’s lifelong.

Jay Whetter  12:22

Yeah, wow. When you know what was Jerry freeze in the high school student, like, like, was, did you go to high school in wawanisa? I did, yeah. So what was, what was it like on the farm and in school? Like, was it a enjoyable time for you? Or did you were you feeling stress and some of this mental health? Yeah, at that time, even

Gerry Friesen  12:48

I always say I was diagnosed in 2004 I know now that it started much sooner than that, and I’ll be honest, my Mennonite upbringing, I was a pastor son. I always say Mennonites are really good at guilt or manipulation with guilt. My parents were great at doing that, right? And so, so was I feeling guilt? Was I dealing with anxiety? Probably both, yeah, and so, so did I enjoy high school? Yes, there were parts of it, absolutely, I did. But you also have to understand is that my parents moved from a Mennonite community near Steinbach to wawanisa to be a part of a group that was going to do outreach, right? And so the Mennonites, there were a small minority in the high school, which made for an interesting life, although in high school, already, people are much more excited. It’s different than middle school. They call it now, right. To top that all off, of course, I was a pastor’s son, so I sometimes suggest that we were a minority in the school, and I was a minority in the Mennonite group because I was a pastor’s son. So it led to some interesting things,

Toban Dyck  14:10

the guilt,

Jay Whetter  14:12

yeah, you know about that too well.

Gerry Friesen  14:15

And I’ve had an argument with a Jewish friend who says, Oh, you guys don’t know nothing about it. We do. And then, of course, the Catholics, you know, so we could, we’ve all got our stories, right?

Toban Dyck  14:24

Do you? Do you? I’m gonna say I know Jay well enough now to kind of know that I knew that answer before I even asked

Jay Whetter  14:33

it. I mean, I feel, I feel like I could probably contribute more to the good of society, and like I’m so I’m driven by, like that social, like a social by a social obligation, I would say. But I don’t have a religious, ingrained guilt, perhaps driven by, you know, not being good enough in the eye of God, say. I’m not sure. Actually, I don’t know where that. Guilt comes from, yeah, because I didn’t grow up with that sort of that culture, but,

Toban Dyck  15:04

like, it’s not tied to internal damnation or or

Jay Whetter  15:08

salvation. No, that’s right. I grew up in the United Church. That says all you need to know,

Toban Dyck  15:17

I know Abby, our producer, doesn’t like to be called out, right? But she did just write on the whiteboard. She wants to know what your definition of Midnight is.

Jay Whetter  15:27

Okay, that’s I’m also very curious, wow, putting me on the spot. Well, I guess, like, the literal definition would be someone a follower of Menno Simon’s and the Anabaptist tradition. And so that would be like the broad sort of definition that brings the Mennonite community, or I guess, defines the Mennonite community. But I mean, living in Manitoba, you can’t help but know a lot of Mennonite people, especially Manitoba Agriculture. And mean it says the Mennonite community is as diverse as any I would say my letters are from Cornwall, England, which is a Celtic part of England. My mom has Scottish. So I’m when I go back, like five or six generations, it’s 100% British Isles. So I am inbred. If you could say that in terms of being all, all British and brought up through, like I said, The United Church and then my family would they were all, what are all of the UK religions? Methodist, Anglican, Presbyterian, you know, all those. And they each have their own guilts. I guess

Toban Dyck  16:40

it is a powerful tool.

Jay Whetter  16:43

Yeah, you know what? This is the first time we’ve had a conversation about religion. That’s true. It seems to be at kind of at the root, and guilt in some cases.

Gerry Friesen  16:50

And how deep do you want to die? Yeah, well,

Jay Whetter  16:55

let’s go straight to that food you were talking about. Mennonite tradition has to go over the food, and then we’ll get we so we’ve done the religion, we’ve done, like the history, and now we’ll talk about the

Toban Dyck  17:06

food. I gotta laugh, because this is, again, a throw to the like our producers for the podcast is on the pre notes. It says Jerry’s favorite food is egg noodles with a cream gravy. And in my head, I’m like, Well, we’re Jerry freeze and Mennonite. He’s talking about Veronica. And I’m like, why don’t we? Why didn’t Ashley just write Veronica? Yeah, that was all for me.

Gerry Friesen  17:26

But when Ashley and I met, yeah, I explained that to her, yeah. And that is, I grew up with Veronica, yeah, with schmoon, fat Saskatoon, Veronica, so Saskatoon is inside the door, and then a healthy heaping of schmont fat on there.

Toban Dyck  17:43

Oh, I’m sorry, but it’s kill here is the noodles with cream gravy,

Gerry Friesen  17:47

isn’t it? Yes, but, but what happened? There’s more

Jay Whetter  17:54

pig fat. No, it’s not

Gerry Friesen  17:59

cream gravy. It’s butter and milk, really. And so my wife being innovative, and perhaps, I hope she doesn’t watch this, perhaps too lazy to actually make the Veronica would make tilt you the egg noodles. Yeah, I throw the schmont fat on top of there, and the saskatoons on top of there, eat that, and my gallstones had a blast.

Toban Dyck  18:27

Like a deconstructed Yes,

Gerry Friesen  18:29

yeah. In fact, she calls it lazy mountain Veronica. It was

Toban Dyck  18:32

perfect. Yeah, it’s perfect. Is that? Is that? Is that the title and more like those Mennonite Treasury cookbooks? Is it the lazy just might should be? Oh, might, should be, oh, I’ll check our, check our recipe covered before you

Gerry Friesen  18:46

go home and check my wife, she has a Mennonite treachery.

Jay Whetter  18:51

Did you eat a lot of that Veronica stuff? It’s so good, Jay, I still would the copper kettle in Morton that used to serve, yeah, I think I had, I think I had Saskatoon or blueberry pierogies there. Yeah, that’s what. This is, okay. But this, well, so the ingredients are all the same, but it’s, it’s deconstructed, yeah, so, like you said, so the noodles that you might use to make the dough, then you got the exactly,

Gerry Friesen  19:19

and it’s awesome. Yeah, it does

Toban Dyck  19:21

sound it is awesome. It is awesome. Or like the pierogies, like with the cottage cheese

Gerry Friesen  19:26

and them, well, see, I don’t go there. You don’t go there because I don’t eat cottage cheese. No, that along with beets and mushrooms, should just kind of be

Jay Whetter  19:37

put aside for the animals.

Toban Dyck  19:40

There’s already a schism in this religious talk. I like it.

Jay Whetter  19:48

No beets, no mushrooms. Else you don’t like

Gerry Friesen  19:52

that’s a long list. But you know what you want a story is back in the 90s, I went on a government trade mission to Japan, right? It, and, of course, Japanese cuisine and raw fish. And one day, I’m sitting with a gentleman at supper time, and I’m having a tough time adjusting to this Japanese food. And I found out he had been in Manitoba the summer previous, chaperoning a 4h group, and he stayed with a family near Steinbach, a Mennonite family, and I said to him, I said, so did you have any adjustment to this food? And he said, No, except for egg noodles. And of course, my favorite, right? Yeah. And I said, What was wrong with them? He said, they really stink. What I almost choked on my shark fin soup. So when I got home, my wife cooked, killed you, and you smell them. They do have an odor about them, really,

Jay Whetter  20:54

if you’re not used to it. Yeah, my dad works it, and I’m going to tell this story, and hopefully he doesn’t get mad, but we it’s legendary within the family. I bought his palette, so he went. He worked in India for two years in the 1960s and to this day, doesn’t not like Indian food, and I don’t think he ate much of it while he was there, but so the family legend is that he ate rice and mangoes for two years. Didn’t partake in the amazing cuisine.

Gerry Friesen  21:21

Well, I’ll tell you when, when someone takes a bite of shrimp and then showed me that the legs were still moving and the appetizer would jump out of the plate, it was in, no, I’m not a big seafood fan to begin with. And then, if it’s not cooked like, please, so is

Jay Whetter  21:37

this the way you describe something that’s raw, or was it like literally alive. It was literally alive. Okay, yes,

Toban Dyck  21:48

so I’m really curious about, just to get right into it here, like, I’m really curious. I think, you know, if it’s if farmers are listening to this, I think one of the things that they might want to hear about is your experience as a farmer and your time, if you’ll allow us to go there, you’re, you know what? What were you starting to recognize in yourself as you farmed? And what were some of the and where I’m coming from is I think there’s probably a lot of farmers out there, and you probably know this too, who are struggling with things they don’t know how to identify. And I think you know perhaps your answer to this, or you’re talking about it, will help someone do that.

Gerry Friesen  22:34

And you know, that’s an interesting point. And I grew up on a grain and poultry farm. When my dad left the farm, and I don’t think he was ever truly a farmer at heart, it was a means to an end, right? It supported him being a pastor, but he really had bigger things or better things that he wanted to do. When I had the opportunity to go back to the farm, and my brother and I took it over. We didn’t want the grain part, so we had the turkeys, but we had to diversify to support two families, so we built a hog barn. And where I’m going with this is, and you guys know I’ve done a whole pile of farm debt mediation over the last 20 years, and so I’ve met countless farmers. Farmers tend to have an identity, and that identity is tied to the to the soil that they cultivate, to the animals they raise. And when that identity is threatened, it just they feel lost. And so in farm debt mediation, for example, if there was ever talk about, you know, having to downsize or to sell, or, God forbid, something even worse, like bankruptcy, it was like, But what will I do if I don’t farm? And I often say that I’m not sure that I ever had that tie to it was there was an opportunity there. I took advantage of it. I went and did it. And again, I tell the story. My book is, is in 2007 as the farm was winding down, I was in Winnipeg. My kids were living there, and so I went out for supper with them, walked into the restaurant, and there was a feed salesman there that I had met over the years. And we chatted, and I said, Yeah. I said, we’re winding down the farm. I’m not sure that I’m a farmer anymore. And he looked at me, and he said, perhaps you never were. And initially it was like, How dare you right. Yeah, right. I could see that being that way. But in second sober thought it was yeah, he recognized something in me that I had perhaps never recognized, and that was that maybe I was cut out for something else, maybe I had never had. That tied my identity to the farm. And so I think folks sometimes feel a little bit lost. We get caught up in our identity. And it’s interesting, over the last year, when people have read my book, people that weren’t farmers, there was a teacher, there was someone else. Can’t remember what they did. They talked about even when they retired, they lose that identity they had. And so, you know what, I’m going down this road, Toban, and I’m not sure I answered your question. That’s okay.

Toban Dyck  25:30

I think, I mean, I You made some great points, and I think the identity one is kind of the existential ness of farming, and you certainly see it in in in retiring generations, right? And what are they going to do next? And I think that identity thing is interesting, and I can only imagine, on a kind of a deep, kind of psychological level, speaking kind of out of expertise, not out of expertise here, but like, if you don’t, you kind of want your identity be, identity to be tied to something deeper than the kind of the activities of the day, right at the end of the day, you kind of need it to be in order to be kind of live a healthy, balanced life? Is that?

Gerry Friesen  26:15

Yeah, I think that’s a fair comment.

Jay Whetter  26:18

Terry, I’m just wondering, like with with mental health, like, is there a point where it happens like, or like, what am I getting at? So you’re, you’re a farmer, but maybe you, maybe you didn’t actually want to be a farmer. Did that trigger something? Or was it like the farm debt mediation where, like I was wondering in the back of my head, I’m thinking, was there some PTSD or mate? So what my question is, is there a moment when it when you realize I’ve got a mental health struggle here? Or is it, or is there no cause? It’s just, it’s just there and you acknowledge it?

Gerry Friesen  27:05

No, I’m not, I’m not sure that. And I think this is part of an overarching problem is, I don’t think people necessarily recognize and when you look at at the survey that the University of Guelph did in 2016 they talk about about 58% of the folks that they surveyed, 1100 and some. 58% would meet the criteria for an anxiety classification, which means that if they went to see a professional, they’d be diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. Well, I don’t think 58 or I don’t think many of those people would have recognized that that’s what they had. But it’s through a through questions, that you come to an understanding of this, right? And so when you talk about myself, my, my, in fact, it was at a farm debt mediation conversation around the kitchen table with a family couple that my heart did some interesting palpitations. I felt lightheaded. I grabbed the edge of the table. I thought I was going to pass it. I thought I was having a heart attack. It passed relatively quickly, and I carried on, but it started happening more often, till four months after that, I went to see a doctor, and he said, you’re having anxiety attacks really, you know. And of course, he said, If you don’t deal with that, it’s going to lead to depression. If it hasn’t already, well, it already had. But that’s my point. It’s not that one day you wake up and go, I have a mental illness. It’s something that slowly happens, you know, and, and we talk about about what stress does. There’s good stress, right? Which gets Toban up in the morning to start the combine, right? Yeah, because a crop has to come off. But in my case, it was an ongoing financial situation, like the hog industry went through some real, real turmoil in the late 90s and early 2000 where, where it was just ongoing day after day after day, where it starts dragging folks down. Yeah, and they don’t necessarily realize it’s just like, Well, if that financial situation is going to get fixed, I’ll be better. Well, unfortunately, in my case, it had gone on so well that, along with other stuff, had gone on so long. And in fact, I’ll never forget the my doctor, when he told me about anxiety, said, I’m going to refer you to a psychiatrist. I went to see a psychiatrist and said to him, You know what? I think if I could sell my farm and move on, I wouldn’t have these issues anymore. And he said, it’s not that simple. So, so that’s what happened. You know, we get caught in the storm. We finally come out of the storm, but we’re not the same as we used to be. Our tolerance levels, for example, for stress, are much lower, and so it’s just not that simple.

Toban Dyck  30:09

Yeah, what do we

Jay Whetter  30:11

so with, with the book, and because this is a podcast, is about extension, and we often talk about extension as an agronomy thing or a farm management thing. So this will be the first time we’ve talked about extension of, you know, mental consideration for the farmers, mental health. How do we extend that effectively?

Gerry Friesen  30:36

You know, the short answer is, it’s happening. There’s more and more awareness

Gerry Friesen  30:44

being built by numerous organizations. National organization do more AG, for example, Canadian Center for Agricultural well being. We have provincial programs, and, of course, we have the Manitoba farmer wellness program in Manitoba that’s offering these supports. They’re offering resources that people can use and and I think it’s a matter of ongoing building awareness, making sure that everybody out there understands the fact that stress management and stress management tools are just as important as that toolbox full of wrenches, and we got to make sure that people are equipped with those.

Jay Whetter  31:25

What happens when you phone that number like, what is the so someone who’s never called that wellness number?

Gerry Friesen  31:35

Well, it’s not, it’s actually not a number. Jay, it’s we have our website, Manitoba, farmerwellness.ca, on, there is information about us, of course, but if people are interested, they click on book an appointment. Our five counselors pop up. One of them is on maternity leave now, so four of them active, and they find the one. They can read their bios and credentials, and they can choose the one that they think they would feel comfortable with, and they directly communicate with counselor. So excuse me, as a CEO of the organization, every month, I get some statistics, but very little. There’s no names involved. It’s all so confidential and and so I under just I know how many clients are taking advantage of the program. I know what age they are, I know what commodity they raise and which Regional Health Authority they’re in.

Jay Whetter  32:32

So just going back to the 58% from Guelph, that Guelph study was that 50% of farmers,

Gerry Friesen  32:41

58% of the 1100 people that were surveyed, yeah,

Jay Whetter  32:44

okay, yeah. And but they were, was this cross section of Canadians, or is this farmers? No, all

Gerry Friesen  32:50

Canadians. Oh, no, no, no, no stories, just farmers.

Jay Whetter  32:53

Okay, so 58% of farmers have what could be considered a mental health illness. And that’s not the right word.

Toban Dyck  33:02

You know, struggle with anxiety, yeah,

Gerry Friesen  33:04

yeah. And I know people shy away from, well, I’m not mentally ill. Yeah. There’s a, still a stigma, taboo to that, you know, that name, that tag, yeah, but in essence, yes. And what is the right word that I should use? Well, I’m not sure there is. They’re dealing with anxiety.

Jay Whetter  33:25

Okay, so I get that. I don’t want to get into the weeds on that necessarily, but 58% which means across the prairies, if let’s just say there are 100,000 farmers, just for the sake of a round number. So these, these call lines. Do more, AG, etc, they should be getting calls from 58,000 people. Are you anywhere close to that? I mean, I shouldn’t say they should be, but they could, no, they could be getting calls from 58,000

Gerry Friesen  33:56

people. No, we’re not anywhere near that. And

Jay Whetter  33:59

how do we is it all stigma related? Or is it not recognizing you said, in a lot of cases, he’s 58% don’t really recognize that they have something that they could talk

Gerry Friesen  34:09

absolutely stigma related. Yeah, I’ve been told I can’t say this, but I’d still do is men react differently to stress than women do. Women talk, and this is a term I used in 2010 women talk about it, and men kill themselves. That’s harsh, but that’s the reality of it. I grew up, and whether it’s Mennonite or United, or whatever it may be, I grew up being told that if you’re dealing with stuff like this, it doesn’t mean you’re it means you’re not working hard enough, you’re not praying hard enough, your faith isn’t strong enough. And so there, and I said before I started talking publicly about my own journey in 2010 and there was very little uptake at the time, you know, the Laura rances of the world into. Interviewed me. But other than that, the subject died pretty quickly. And if I would get asked to speak at events, they would say, well, we’d like you to present for 30 minutes, and we’re going to give 10 minutes for questions and answers. And I always laugh. I said, you won’t have any questions, because people aren’t going to do that in public, right? Because not even ask for a friend. I sometimes in a presentation say, okay, get up and ask a question. If you don’t want to be identified, say you’re asking for a friend, right? But that’s changed, and there are more people that are will publicly say, Yes, I have a question. How do you deal with this, or even my wife, or my husband or my kid are dealing with these issues. How can I help them? So the stigma is reducing, yeah, and there’s more people reaching out for help, but we’re still not where we need to be.

Jay Whetter  35:56

Well, like, Could we just say everyone should me? Obviously, these programs aren’t, aren’t equipped for everybody to make a appointment.

Gerry Friesen  36:08

Well, yeah, you know what? We fashioned our program after the one on Prince Edward Island, which had been ongoing for 20 some years, and just before, the year before our program started, which was 2022 Prince Edward Island has 1200 farmers. The year before that, 300 of them had reached out for help. That’s 25% right? Yeah. Well, we have 14,000 farmers in Manitoba. And if you looking at 25% will do the math like, we’re not anywhere near there, but it’s increasing. People are talking about

Toban Dyck  36:50

it, yeah, yeah, it’s such a and I’m happy you’re asking questions, Jay, because it’s like, in my head’s just going all over the place, just because, like, it’s so fraught, like, it’s so fraught, like, in these in, like, I’m you’re in Winkler here, you’re just north of Winkler, right? Very religious community and mental health is, like, I can appreciate that the trajectory is going in the right way, and I think that’s great, and it’s worth celebrating, because it’s just, it’s going to be incremental progress, like anything is, and that’s, that’s worth, that’s worth a lot, but you Jay, what Jay doesn’t know because he doesn’t, didn’t grow up. Like, but you tie in. You tie in that religious component. You tie in just that cultural like, if I’m going to talk to, say, my parents, or whatever, about anxiety, they would listen to me. I’m guessing they would, but there would probably be no reciprocal, like recognition of their own anxiety, I mean. And that could be a number of things. And the reason I talk about this now here is because I think there’s a there’s multiple approaches to this one where they, they know they have it, but they’re not going to talk about it, because they just, they don’t talk about those things. That’s not what they do. They’re very stoic. It’s a very, it’s a very kind of, it’s very insecure. You’re showing weakness. You are, you are, you know, kind of, a lot of these Mennonites feel like they’re still being persecuted, or if they’re not being persecuted, they find that red herring. They find something to be persecuted for. So if it’s going to be a weakness, they’re going to feel preyed upon, right? If they, if they let that, let that out. So and then there’s yet another camp entirely, where they don’t even know how to recognize if they’re anxious or not, because this is what it life has always been like for them, and it’s what their dads did in the farm. That’s how farming is. It is crappy, hard, like, just tumultuous, or whatever, right work. And so I think, I think there’s a lot of farmers operating in that environment right now. And I’m pretty sure you’d agree with me, your nodding head suggested you are, but sure, and then you you tie in kind of a multi generational aspect to it. And it’s always been a theory of mine that a lot of innovation has stagnated in these environments where, yeah, there’s just, there’s just, there’s no connection. There’s there’s just, there’s anxiety, there’s generations not being able to talk to each other, because you just don’t do that. So everything just kind

Gerry Friesen  39:34

of Yeah. And you know what? I in one of my farm debt meetings I had with a father and son. I’m talking to the son, who was probably 30 years old at the time, and he was telling me that when he went to the barn, there was stuff he found it difficult to put his boots on the right way, and there was some other stuff he was describing to me. And I said, I. I said, you’re dealing with some mental health stuff, and you need to go see a doctor. Well, he said, Can’t I just go see my pastor? And I was instantly a little upset, and I think it’s because of my personal involvement in this mental health stuff. And I just said, Would you go see your pastor if you broke your leg, we have to get to the point where we understand the fact that that a mental health mental illness is no different than a physical illness, and there’s ways and means of dealing with that. Am I throwing faith and spirituality out the window. No, those are great ways of coping with stuff. I get it, I understand it, but it’s not. If you’re having an actual mental illness, it’s not a fix for it.

Jay Whetter  40:54

Yeah, I guess I should add something that even though I’m not I don’t have, like, that religious guilt I do feel like stress and anxiety and No, no, not at all. I just, I just wanted to say that like it’s not, it’s not that I feel like I’m not, you know, doing right by God or not doing what God expects of me, but I do feel stress in other ways. So I just wanted to say I’m not because I wasn’t brought up that way. It doesn’t mean that I’m without stress,

Gerry Friesen  41:32

for sure. Oh no, absolutely. And that’s why I always clarify. And I know that there’s some people that that take exception, and although I felt good about this back last fall, I did a did a book thing for a group, an accounting firm, put it on, and there were some fairly religious people in this group, and the same topic came up, and I said, I apologize up front for Saying this, I don’t want to step on anybody’s toes, but I feel strongly that we need to deal with mental illness differently than we have in the past, and going to your pastor isn’t necessarily going to do it. And you know what? They came they came up to me, two of them who are in a stricter Mennonite sect than I am or was came up to me and said they fully agree with that. So, so it felt good, and I think that’s just another sign that we’re making progress,

Jay Whetter  42:29

yeah, and I think it’s worth like for the purpose of this conversation we’re having right now, just to remind people that it’s okay to reach out and so, so what would, what would a parent or a child or a relative or a friend do when they see someone who might help from an appointment or a conversation? What should

Gerry Friesen  42:52

we there’s no easy answer for that. Jay, I tell people that

Gerry Friesen  43:01

it’s difficult. You’re watching this person. It’s difficult to push them, whoops, push them where they need to be. You can’t do that, because they’re going to resist. What’s helpful is to sit down and say, I’m here. We don’t have to say anything. I’m here to listen. I’m here to be quiet with you, if that’s what you want. One of the most impactful experiences I had is as I had gone on medication in 2004 went off of it in 2005 because I thought I was good. And then there was a life event that happened that pushed me right, pretty much over the abyss again. I show up at the hog barn, and my neighbor shows up, and I’m sure he could tell I wasn’t in a good place, and he said, Hey, are you okay? And you know how we say, Oh yeah, plugging along another day in paradise. I ever Yeah, I’m fine. For some reason, I took the advantage of that morning and just started talking, wow. And he sat there and he didn’t provide answers. He normalized and validated what I was feeling. And he just was a safe listening ear, amazing. And that hour he spent with me was the impetus I needed to take that next step and reach out for help.

Jay Whetter  44:27

So that’s what we can do. We just interviewed provide safe spaces. We interviewed a person for the podcast. I don’t know whether she’s going to air before or after you, but she said, You tell me if this, if that you like this. But she would say, Okay, how are you feeling today, between one and 10, and then, if you said six, and then, then we would, she would say, Well, how do we make that a seven? I do. Do you think that works like it was kind of a, it was kind of an, it was an agronomy, but also a person. And I think she had two reasons to do this. It was like, I kind of want to respond to this. Yeah, no, yeah. Definitely do. Because I obviously want to hear from both,

Toban Dyck  45:09

yeah, but I would say no, just, just because it is, like, it’s so important to because you’re trying to change that, you know, in Jerry’s example, it wasn’t, it wasn’t that guy wasn’t there to make Jerry feel better. He was there to listen, right? So to acknowledge that it is a six, and it’s it’s okay, and it’s completely okay to be a six, and it’s almost like a you are like you are enough at a six. You don’t need to be a seven, right? So, I mean, that’s my answer to that. And I mean,

Gerry Friesen  45:41

I like the way you articulated that, because one of the things I often say, and in my world, we often say, is, it’s okay not to be okay. Yeah, that’s right. And, and there’s nothing that feels as good as when I get up in the morning, and my mornings are brutal, like the first hour, I dragged my sorry butt out of bed, because I know in an hour it’ll be better, right? But to just sit there and go, yeah, it’s okay. It’s okay to feel the way I am. In fact, I was chatting with a friend of mine this morning and talking about, and this is going way off, down a path, but talking about anxiety and and so he was, he was refusing to go on a trip with his wife because it made him anxious. He wasn’t going to partake in the member golf club championships, sorry, because it made him anxious. And I said, Dude, you have to learn. Yes, there’s some things we don’t need to do if they create anxiety, but other things walk towards it, because if you don’t, you’re going to get end up on the couch in a fetal position, covering your head with your hands, because you don’t know, you know. So there it’s, it’s a matter of trying to distinguish which is

Jay Whetter  47:06

which you’re so, back to your friend. So, so walk towards it, because, yeah, otherwise you or you’re in your house or your coach, and you’re you can’t do anything, maybe, but, but I want to, I want to hear about what your friend I want you to tell me again what your friend did right that day when you finally decided you wanted to talk,

Gerry Friesen  47:28

he sat down with me and listened. He normalized and validated what I was feeling. And I’ve heard people

Jay Whetter  47:41

say this, what does that language sound like when you normalize and validate? What is, what did, what did he say? Or did he say nothing. I get it.

Gerry Friesen  47:51

That makes sense to me. Yeah. I don’t think he even, and this is 20 years ago, I don’t think he even said, Well, if I had, you know, I would do this. It was more just, yeah, I get it.

Jay Whetter  48:04

So that wasn’t so back to my one in 10. There was he, you didn’t need to hear from him. How can I help?

Gerry Friesen  48:10

No, right? He helped me by listening. And that was huge, because we have, sorry. Can I go down this path? We have these thoughts running around in our head, right? And when you’re when you’re dealing with anxiety or depression, these thoughts can take you all over the place, and half of those thoughts are BS to begin with, right? But they’re there, and so when, when you just leave them in your brain, they stay there and percolate and don’t go away when you verbalize something. And that’s what I did that morning. I verbalized everything going on up there, and what happened is when it started spewing out. Number one is I came to the realization that half of what I was saying sounded bizarre, bunch of BS, right? And the other part was I was relieving a load that I was carrying. And it might be that some of what I talked about I probably might not have felt comfortable sharing with my wife or with my kids or with my brother, right? But it was someone that I felt safe sharing this with, because I knew he’d go home, and I knew that he wasn’t going to talk to other people about it, and I felt comfortable with it.

Jay Whetter  49:26

What if you don’t have that person, that friend? Is that when you call the help lines, or we do that, maybe anyway?

Gerry Friesen  49:36

Well, yeah, I think, I think there’s a lot of benefit to and we still have the Manitoba farm and rural stress line, right? I’m not going to say what I think about that, but we also have a national crisis line, which was started by the Canadian Center for Agricultural well being the. Those lines are great if you’re in a crisis, right? It might be late at night, because these lines are 24/7, and it’s late at night, or during the night when people can’t sleep, being able to call in and to talk to someone. Farm lines should be operated by someone that knows something about agriculture and the Manitoba farm and world stress line. I’m not sure it is that much anymore, but, but so you can call in and they can relate and say, and just help you talk this thing through, right? But absolutely, there’s absolutely no shame in making an appointment with a counselor, because, and it might only be one appointment, it might be three appointments, who knows, but just to help you cope better, to help you understand why you’re feeling the way you are to have that safe place to talk about it again, right? Because when my farm was in financial trouble, did I feel comfortable talking to my wife about it? Absolutely not, because it made me look feel like a failure. I didn’t want to put that burden on her, and so I didn’t How do you

Jay Whetter  51:20

is there. I mean, I feel like finances are, I don’t know what the I don’t know what the biggest stressor is in agriculture, weather would be one, but weather is not within your control. Finances maybe are, in theory, like is, that is money the biggest or one of the biggest mental health factors

Gerry Friesen  51:43

because of my work with farm debt mediation. I may, I may not necessarily. I say it is, and I’ve said that. In fact, I read that in an interview I did not that long ago, and I came directly out and said, financial trouble is the biggest stressor on the farm. It depends. Jay, yeah. I mean, my finances might not be bad, but if I’m looking out at the crop and it needs to come off, and we get three and a half inches of rain and and it’s not looking like it’s going to come off, and there’s tariffs that might come on. It goes on like, who not, but I’d see, but at the end of the day, everything I just listed boils down to a financial issue again, right?

Jay Whetter  52:31

I guess the other big one, and just as it comes to mind, is just family relationships. Well, I mean, that is, that’s huge challenge.

Gerry Friesen  52:39

It’s absolutely huge, yeah, but I think very often that’s secondary to money, a bigger issue,

Jay Whetter  52:49

like you said, you wouldn’t want to talk to your wife or burden your wife.

Gerry Friesen  52:52

And so what happens when I’m dealing with the stress is I start my expectations for myself, my expectations for others go up, and nobody can do anything right? And guess what? Now there’s tension in a relationship, yeah? And of course. And I think I know where you were going with your comment is as family farms, succession planning, kids, parents, it’s huge. But counselors, sorry. Counselors also tell me that when they get a client in their presenting issue usually isn’t the issue.

Jay Whetter  53:34

Okay, can can you give an example?

Gerry Friesen  53:38

Oh, well, I may, I may go in and talk to a counselor, because my relationship with my wife isn’t what it should be, yeah, and then when they start exploring that, they may find out that I’ve been dealing with financial issues for the last two years. I’ve been dealing with a combine that’s broken down again, and I can’t get the crop off like it’s, it’s these things, and when you start because and again. And I think this goes back to the survey that was done, you know, with the 58% experiencing anxiety is, do they know they’re experiencing that anxiety? And so if I go in to see a counselor and say, Ah, my heart is palpitating, Mike’s gut is churning when I get up in the morning. Well, yeah, but why? Let’s delve into that. And then

Toban Dyck  54:36

how can farmers start? I mean, and I agree with you, I think even if there is even the slightest curiosity among our listeners that they to see a counselor, I think you should chase that curiosity and just do it. I’ve done it. It’s always been rewarding. I would stand by that any day of the week. I think it’s a fantastic thing. I think. You know, one of the things that I’ve personally worked on, you know, you know, farm and working with, you know, multi generations on the farm, and then running bird, forest group, and then, you know, managing people. And you know, working, working in this environment is learning how to deal with, live with anxiety is essentially, right? It’s a strange bedfellow, but so for me, it’s, it’s on a regular basis, learning to recognize what I’m anxious about. And that is not so easy, right? It’s not an easy thing. So among our listeners who who might be kind of dabbling or not, aren’t quite there yet. How would you? How would you? How would you start to recognize even the fact that you are anxious, and then, and then those specific anxieties

Gerry Friesen  55:48

well, and I think some of it is, is, again, I didn’t when my heart was palpitating, I didn’t realize it was an anxiety attack. So be aware of these things. And I sometimes talk about, you know, changes physically, mentally, emotionally, and our behaviors change. There’s little indicators, you know, that that something is off. My neck is awfully stiff today, you know, why is that? And suddenly you realize, oh, you’re uptight, you’re tense, you know, you’re more irritable, you’re drinking more to cope. You know, there’s all these things that you can recognize, but there’s also a time, and I deal with this a lot, is I’ll get up in the mornings and I have incredible anxiety, and I’m going, why? Well, there is no specific reason, but then to change the thought pattern to something else. And people sometimes ask me, you know whether you use gratefulness to deal with anxiety, while there was for years that I would have told people to bugger off if they would even suggest that to me, right? Because, no, I’m not. I don’t find anything to be grateful for, because I’m anxious and I’m dealing with this, this and this. But I’ve also found now that if I take a moment and go, Wow, I’m fortunate to be where I’m at today compared to where I was at 20 years ago, 15 years ago. I have all these things to be thankful for, and really nothing that should make me anxious. It can shift your thinking.

Jay Whetter  57:42

Last time I talked to you was after a presentation you made to the farm Writers Conference that might have been Regina. BC, it was. BC, yes. And then I did this column for for canola digest on and I included some of your thoughts, but you talked about just very simple day to day encounters with people, and how those help you. And I all I to this day, I think, almost on a daily basis, that thought comes to me, and I’ll go for walks down the street, and I’ll just say hi to all these people, and it gives me a real charge, and I doesn’t give them a charge, I’m not sure, but I just, I think, I just, I live the I don’t know whether you want to know that, but I think you should know that I live that advice now on a on a daily basis, I love it. So how would you

Gerry Friesen  58:34

Toban? Toban, yeah, that’s why write a book. That’s why I talk about it. Yeah, because it helped one person

Toban Dyck  58:42

suddenly worth it? Yeah, I

Jay Whetter  58:43

just, it. Just puts a big smile on my face to get out of the house and just be with people. And that’s maybe, that’s my I’m more of an outgoing personality, but it feeds me. So what? How would you can you sell? Can you say that again? Why it matters to

Gerry Friesen  59:00

you absolutely. Again, speaking for myself and I suspect for others, is we get so wrapped up in our thoughts, I pull up to a gas pump what most of them are self serve now, so I go to a co op where it isn’t so the person starts filling my gas tank. I can sit there and just look down and stew about it. I can get out, walk into the store and get ready to pay, or I can take a moment and chat with the person pumping the gas, and it makes my day better, and it makes their day better. I’ll guarantee it. And when you say you don’t know if it makes people’s days when you you know absolutely it does when you talk to the cashier that’s ringing up your groceries, just that interaction. And actually, this boils down to a chemical we have in our brain. It’s called oxytocin, not oxycontin oxytocin. There’s a difference. It’s sometimes called a love hormone, or the god hormone. It and and just the simple act of looking each other in the eye, shaking hands, chatting briefly, releases that hormone, which is a natural stress reducer. So it chemically, scientifically, it makes sense, and it works.

Jay Whetter  1:00:16

Yeah, I love it. Fantastic. Well, we Yeah, how does it say? Say that again? Abby, I missed that.

Jay Whetter  1:00:32

I can’t read that far away anyway. What, what I wanted to make sure that we got from you is just when you, when you, when you got the call from Ashley to know that we wanted to talk to you. Was there something you that you thought, Okay, I need to say this like there’s a one thing that you, you want people to to take away from a conversation with you.

Gerry Friesen  1:00:59

I always say, and this actually goes back to someone asked me, why? What I want people to get out of my book, there’s three things. Number one is you’re not alone. And as farmers quite often, and you know about this, Toban, you’re sitting in a combine late at night. You feel isolated. You’re not alone. Others are experiencing the same thing. It’s more than okay to reach out for help, yeah, and there’s hope and relief.

Toban Dyck  1:01:32

Yeah, that’s fantastic.

Jay Whetter  1:01:36

Toban, I like your it’s okay not to be okay. Was it? You said that

Gerry Friesen  1:01:41

we both. We both, yeah. We often used in my world, yeah. And we have to be accepting of that, yeah. And in fact, someone suggested to me. In fact, I wrote a blog about this. Excuse me, this last winter, I’ve always had a genuine curiosity, and I think I said this before about why I am the way I am, and I’ve gone through a handful and more of professionals trying to get help, and the one that finally helped me was one that connected dots for me. Didn’t fix me, but connected dots for me, and so that was very helpful. And so I can be proactive about it, but I was also chasing perfection. So if you would ask me, you know, on a scale of one to 10, where are you at? You know, I’m a seven. And maybe, just maybe, that’s as good as it’ll get, and she’ll be happy with that. Don’t give up, but go, Yeah, you know what? And life is good.

Jay Whetter  1:02:52

What were the dots, dots that that person helped connect for you? Like, what does that

Gerry Friesen  1:02:57

mean? It means that I went in, and this had to do with my addiction issues and my mental health, yeah. And so we went back and we talked about what we talked about my upbringing, yeah, not that it, not that I had a horrible upbringing, but I always say that my upbringing, church, all of that didn’t cause my mental health issues, but they probably contributed to it okay, but so she was able to connect those dots and go, Well, this, yes, and this, and, and, oh, I could go down a rabbit hole with this. I’m not going to but and so, just so I could understand is, Jerry, you are here, and this is the reason why you’re here. Okay, and from here I can move forward using different tricks, using different resources, some work, some don’t, but I’m never going to quit trying.

Jay Whetter  1:04:01

And so the other thing that I want to ask about then is you said that was the sixth person you talked to.

Gerry Friesen  1:04:11

So I think we’re not connected dots exactly. I didn’t say six. There’s been probably more

Jay Whetter  1:04:17

change, okay, maybe, maybe you said, maybe it was a number, and I wrote down six, but it doesn’t the number doesn’t matter. What I wanted to say as a message to listeners is that you might talk to someone who is not the not the right person, so don’t give up after one conversation. I think that’s just that was the thing that I

Gerry Friesen  1:04:37

love, that message. It’s in my book, something I say when I do presentations is if and you do this with doctors with physical health, yeah, you go for second opinions, right? Yeah, and sometimes third I went and I talked about the friend that dropped in to talk to me, that in 2005 while my wife and I decided that instead of going on Medicaid. Question, I should try to talk therapy, and with the life I had led up to that point, being involved in agricultural politics in the 90s and stuff, I kind of felt, maybe this sounds a little arrogant, but I thought, You know what? I’m going to start at the top. I’m going to go see a psychologist, and went for an appointment, which I thought would be the first of a number of them, and he talked to me for an hour. He found out that I was dealing with these financial stressors, and at the end of the hour, he said, You have to go on meds because you can’t afford me.

Jay Whetter  1:05:37

Well, nice, really, that’s,

Gerry Friesen  1:05:40

can you imagine? No like. And I hear anecdotal stories like this, and so please, yes, Jay, and I’m glad you brought it up. If that first one doesn’t work, even if you’re calling a counselor with Manitoba farmer wellness, yeah, if that first counselor doesn’t meet your needs, please go to the another one. Don’t give up.

Toban Dyck  1:06:01

Yeah, yeah. Before we wrap up, I do also want to emphasize the importance of listening too, because, you know, you mentioned that one conversation that you had, and I know enough farmers to know that listening is not so easy. It’s very a lot of farmers are very quick to give solutions, quick solutions. Like you need quick solutions, you’re gonna just schmade something together, just to use another Low German word, just for

Gerry Friesen  1:06:27

Jerry’s. Jerry’s. That’s not one I’ve heard before, but I know what it means.

Toban Dyck  1:06:32

You know the sound, right? Yeah, you just make it work. So you know, for anyone listening, also the importance of listening to your neighbor or listening to your friend or family member and not trying to provide the solution, but to just listen and be there.

Gerry Friesen  1:06:48

Can I add something to that? Please do? And this happened a number of years ago. After a presentation, a farmer came to me and he said, You know, I loved your presentation, but thankfully I don’t deal with any of that. And I said, That’s awesome. Good for you. But I said, I know for a fact you have neighbors that are dealing with this, so if you’re not take the time to go check in on them, and that’s sometimes all that’s needed, yeah,

Toban Dyck  1:07:16

hey, how’s it going? Yeah? Yeah. Well, this has been, this has been amazing. Thank you so much, Gary for taking the time.

Gerry Friesen  1:07:24

You can tell I get passionate about the subject. Yeah, I enjoy talking about it.

Jay Whetter  1:07:29

And huge kudos. And thank you to you

Toban Dyck  1:07:32

for putting yourself out there. Yeah, for writing the book. Yeah, the recovering farmer,

Jay Whetter  1:07:36

because you, I mean, just my little example I gave you, but I mean, you’re reaching people you probably don’t even understand, or not not understand. You know you’re reaching them, but you you don’t know how many people.

Gerry Friesen  1:07:49

I appreciate that. Thank you. And where can people get your book? They can buy it off of Amazon. They can go to my website, jerryfreesen.ca, and there’s a number of different links on there and how to order it. They can get it directly from me. And that’s a Jerry with a G, Jerry with a G. Thank you.

Toban Dyck  1:08:07

Awesome. Thanks a lot. Thanks so much, Jerry. It was Thank you. It was

Gerry Friesen  1:08:10

a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jay Whetter  1:08:17

Hey there, listeners, if you’re enjoying the conversations here on the extensionist, you will probably love to get our newsletter.

Toban Dyck  1:08:23

Yeah, it’s the best way to stay connected with us, with Jay and myself. Yours truly, I’m excited about the newsletter, to be honest with you, because I think, well, so many of our guests have so why are you excited about say say that differently, Jay, so many of our guests are they say so many things of interest, right? And I feel like the newsletter be a great will be a great way to share that with our

Jay Whetter  1:08:49

listeners, like quick take homes, yeah? Summaries, yeah, absolutely, one liner,

Toban Dyck  1:08:53

absolutely, absolutely, I think about each each guest, we could probably write a whole bunch of articles from each of our guests, right? So to give our our newsletter subscribers, like summaries of, you know, the key takeaways of these things, plus plus information on upcoming guests. All they got to do. All listeners have to do is go to the extensions.com and follow the prompts to sign up. I think it’ll be, I think it’ll be great. You

Jay Whetter  1:09:25

so that was a good one. I was good, very different, but so important. Yeah, like, I feel like, mean,

Toban Dyck  1:09:32

like, I like, it’s weird headspace and a weird headspace, but just like this deep, introspective headspace,

Jay Whetter  1:09:39

I felt, I felt like we had had an amazingly important conversation, maybe more so than after any of the conversations we’ve had before.

Toban Dyck  1:09:48

It definitely tapped into a new

Jay Whetter  1:09:52

well for us, I think, and that. But there’s no easy there’s no easy way to approach any of that, except. Loved listening. I think, I think if I had a takeaway, it’s just the power of just letting someone talk to you and and, you know, release all of what’s in their head, and you don’t have to give them. And this is the, this is maybe the hardest thing for people, is that you don’t have to help, try to help them necessarily. Just by listening, you’re helping. It’s

Toban Dyck  1:10:22

so like, I yeah, I agree. It’s so counterintuitive. And I fight my I fight with myself on a regular basis in conversations with people, to not offer, I mean, it’s called, you know, make mansplaining or whatever, right? But to just not say it, just like, in my head, and just like, Shut up Toban, like you don’t need to say this person does not need to hear and it. And what I liked about it was, and what I’m working with on a personal level is, when you work with lots of people, which we all do, it’s not telling them what to do. It’s it is listening. And you listen because nine times out of 10 they know the answer themselves. They’re not idiots, like they know it, right? So you’re not, you don’t. They don’t need me to tell them. They just need to talk. And it’s like they’ll figure it out, like they will figure it out. And it’s so hard to put into practice, especially when you are in a position where you’re giving people direction or guidance to kind of know the limitations of direction and guidance and and then take it in. The next level is actually just just trusting they are listening and just being like, they’re gonna, they’ll figure it out, you know, like Jerry, in talking, was able to kind of court, you know, you know, chart his own path, yeah, right. And that person didn’t say a thing, yeah,

Jay Whetter  1:11:55

but, but that person, the key thing that that person did was sort of acknowledge that maybe Jerry needed to to talk. Or, like he said, is everything okay? Or what was that opening? I think it was something very Pat, like, and then Jerry decided that that day he wasn’t just gonna say, everything’s fine,

Toban Dyck  1:12:16

yeah, so there’s just, there’s a couple of things, right? That guy asked, and that Jerry felt he will, he felt he had the courage to to, just to open up. The time was right, yeah. And then that guy just read the room, I guess, and just realize this is his time to listen. And, yeah, I don’t know there’s a, there’s something, there’s something to that. So, you know, when I think about it, and I was thinking about even at thinking about, even at the time, as an extension, not that, you know, not that we need to tie it into extension, but the LEAP is there, you know when, when you have agronomist, Farmer relationships, or whatever it is that, you know, there is a, there is a space for listening, and there’s a space for like, You know, the farmer might actually know what the right answer is. They might just need to get there through, you know, a very kind of passive conversation, or just just to have someone to listen. And it doesn’t actually go against what other other of our guests have said, too, like no, if there is something to that, right? You know,

Jay Whetter  1:13:25

I was doing the Winnipeg Free Press crypto quote a while back. No, I enjoyed doing them. But anyway, the quote was, we are all just walking each other home. And by this person named rom Das, P, A, S, S, but anyway, just it struck me, and I kind of wrote it down, and I made a little postcard kind of with it. But the point is that we’re all like, we need to be there for each other. And I don’t know whether walking each other home, whether that meant like, literally home, or whether it meant like to the end of our lives. But anyway, the I think, I think it’s great, but the commute like we, yeah, yeah, we kind of need each other. People are humans, are social beings for the door. So even if you’re totally introverted and you went into farming because you want to be by yourself some parts of your life, I hope you feel like you can reach out to someone,

Toban Dyck  1:14:22

yeah, yeah, yeah. And I hope, like you just hope that some listeners have taken that away, like I yeah, there’s so much that I want this episode to pack, like, to to contain for people, right? And I know it can’t contain everything, right?

Jay Whetter  1:14:40

But what was it? Is it do more dot egg. I have no idea. Do more egg has all of the resources. Yeah, that’s and so I would encourage people to go to do more egg and then find out who your provincial service is. Once again. Thank you to our episode sponsor. Sponsor, Alberta canola, who is hosting grower engagement meetings for canola growers across the province.

Toban Dyck  1:15:05

Connect with your regional directors and leading industry experts to hear the latest on agronomy, market outlooks and international trade.

Jay Whetter  1:15:14

Free to attend. Register at Alberta canola.com this has been the extensionist. I’m Jay wetter

Toban Dyck  1:15:20

and I’m Toban Dyck, till next time.

Toban Dyck  1:15:29

We also want to thank the people working behind the scenes to make this podcast happen. This

Jay Whetter  1:15:32

has been a burforest group production. Abby wall is our producer and editor. Ashley Robinson is our coordinator, and Michelle Holden is our designer.