Episode 1:

Alanna Koch

Transcript

Toban Dyck  00:03

This is the extensionist conversations with great thinkers in agriculture. I’m Toban Dyck, and I’m Jay weather. You have to ask me how it’s going. I don’t know what kind of story I’m going to share yet, but how’s it going? Toban, I’m doing all right, Jay, I’m doing all right. Have no idea what made me think of this, but it’s camping related. So we’re wife and I were at rushing river Ontario camping, and so we’re in a tent. We’re in the tent, and there’s this guy and his girlfriend camping beside us. He introduces himself as soon as we’re setting up our tent. He’s, his name’s Dean. He was well into the sauce, well into the sauce when we get there. We get there, like, dinner time, right? He’s, he’s, he’s drunk and but he’s, like, he’s chatty, he’s happy, drunk, right? He’s wants to just be a part of the community, so he’s just standing around as we’re going up and down the stairs and, like, setting up our our campsite, and then all of a sudden, evening comes around, and he starts. He starts. He starts lamenting how he’s, he’s, he was turning 40, I believe, and how nobody he just like he was crying. He there’s this person, but he was all very positive, and he was playing Tom Petty’s refugee over and over again on his stereo, and sing singing to it as loud as he could. And he would, he would sing it, and then he would start almost crying and saying to this person that he’s camping with, I’m turning 40. I’m turning 40. Tom Petty had just passed away. Tom Petty’s dead. He was so young. And you know what? I’m turning 40, and nobody knows that my favorite song is refugee. And then he would start singing it as loud as he can,

Jay Whetter  01:54

and you’re like, I know your favorite song is refuge. Yeah, baby.

Toban Dyck  01:56

He would he did it for hours. He did it for hours and hours and hours. And hours. And he would come back to this, you don’t even know. You don’t even know my favorite song is refugee. And then he would sing it again.

Jay Whetter  02:06

That’s why I hate camping. You hate camping. I mean, I hate strong word. I did care is a strong word, and if it applies, it applies. Well, I camped this summer for three nights. And I guess it wasn’t the worst thing in the world.

Toban Dyck  02:18

Like there is a just a commitment to like, you not getting like, full eight hours of REM sleep in a in a tent.

Jay Whetter  02:27

You know, we could talk about camping. Let’s talk about camping again. Another time you

Toban Dyck  02:32

telling me that you’re gonna put it, put it in the parking lot? Yeah, we’ll put

Jay Whetter  02:36

it, you know, the old classic pin in the camping discussion. Well, because we’ve got to get on to our guests, I am now

Toban Dyck  02:42

motivated to convince you that camping is great, so this is good. We will get a debate about it. We should have a debate about it. And with that, yeah, right, we have the debate master

Jay Whetter  02:51

herself. As of August, 1 SAS canola and Sask flax have amalgamated into a single organization, introducing Sask oil seed.

Toban Dyck  03:04

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Jay Whetter  03:16

Sask oil seeds.

Toban Dyck  03:18

About Sask oil seeds. That’s right.

Jay Whetter  03:23

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Toban Dyck  03:29

You have questions, you can always initiate a two way conversation with the Sask oil seeds team.

Jay Whetter  03:33

Visit SAS canola.com/texting for details on how to subscribe.

Toban Dyck  03:42

We have a lot of cook with us today. She is, if you don’t know her, she is involved in a ton of things. She’s a politician. She’s She used to be a politician. She is a leader. She’s a farmer. She’s involved in a bunch of very, very important, critical boards. You are a presence. Alana, every time I talk to you, I’m not I’m not intimidated, because you don’t come across that way. But you are very articulate. You’re very well put together, and I always respect our conversations. I think you are a leader in the ag industry. You’re a wonderful person. I’ve just had such a great, great experience with you,

Jay Whetter  04:15

even though she called you a tech,

Toban Dyck  04:17

tech geek, yeah, even though she makes makes fun of us, we still have a lot of respect

Alanna Koch  04:25

for her. Well, I’m now a tech nerd with you guys too, because I also have on the headset. So no, well, thanks Toban. That’s a very kind introduction. I think you’re setting me up for for failure here, because that’s a lot of expectations as far as what you’ve said there, but I but I really appreciate the

Toban Dyck  04:40

intro. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here today with us and chatting with us. Yeah, we’re very much looking forward to this.

Alanna Koch  04:47

Well, thanks for asking me, and I hope I don’t disappoint I’m not a podcaster, but I guess we’ll see how this goes.

Jay Whetter  04:58

You mentioned community earlier. Here and Eden wold. So I just, I want to try to picture Atlanta like I know where you’re going, Atlanta, Atlanta at home. So Atlanta and Jerry are walking through the co op with your sweat pants on. You know you’re just, you’re turned off. You know you’re the professional. Atlanta is out there in Regina and Ottawa, and egg in motion

Toban Dyck  05:22

on the extension is podcast,

Jay Whetter  05:26

yeah, so I just, I want to know a bit about the the Atlanta back home. Are you? What are you? The same person? Are you a little how do you, well, first

Toban Dyck  05:38

of all, do you wear a sweat back to the grocery store, tipping your store, Jerry’s filling the cart with pop tarts and, right? And, yeah, first

Alanna Koch  05:49

of all, it’s a hard no on sweatpants. I’m a jeep. You know, you’d never catch me co op in sweatpants. Do you want to catch me at the house and sweat? But, well, you know, I, I think Jerry and I and you guys both, both know Jerry too. Like, I think, I mean, what people have said to both of us is, you know, you guys are kind of the same people, whether you’re on the farm or at AG and motion or at the co op or, you know, at a conference. Like, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think we’re much different. Like, we’re, we are who we are and I think, I think it makes it easy. I don’t have to decide what person I’m going to be, whether I’m at home or I’m in Ottawa, because I am who I am. Just

Jay Whetter  06:30

you the authentic Aladdin,

Alanna Koch  06:31

well, I think so. I think so. And, you know, I mean, we’re both super involved. Well, have really been super involved in our community. Of course, when our kids were, we were super involved. Jerry ran the room for 20 years. I was on the school board, you know, we’re both involved at the church. Jerry’s like, a great Catholic who was on the Lutheran church council, because it’s the only church in town, you know, I’m on the altar. Girls. I still set up communion on Sundays. Like, that’s just kind of what you do when you’re a small community. We’ve got our fall supper coming up. You know, in October, I’m making pies and I’m gonna go serve turkey.

Toban Dyck  07:08

Wow. Yeah, you’re involved

Jay Whetter  07:11

in so many things, Alana, but Ashley did a bit of a pre interview with you. So Toban picked on one thing, and he so he wants to kick off with with a bit of a either, maybe not a challenge, but, well, potentially a challenge, yeah. So,

Toban Dyck  07:24

you know, reading these notes that Ashley put together, I’m like, you know, Atlanta was part of the debate club, so I’m like, Oh, this is great. So we’re gonna put a challenge to you to create a mock debate scenario for us three, and we’re gonna, I would like to work, would like to figure that out so

Jay Whetter  07:43

and try to learn something while we’re debating. Well,

Toban Dyck  07:45

I think so. I never did a debate club, and I always found it very fascinating, like people who could could do that. I think it’s a really interesting skill, but I also think it’s something that’s kind of missing in discourse today. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Alanna Koch  07:58

You know that kind of putting forward both sides of the debate, or both sides of the question, all the views get on the table, and then from there, we can find the best way forward. I think we’re so positional now, and so dug in, you know, so dug in, and so polarized, I guess is the word so polarized. And our view is that you you really can’t have healthy discourse. It’s just very dysfunctional, dysfunctional conversation. It’s not even conversation, just dysfunctional positioning that then doesn’t allow us to really get the facts out and get the conversation out. It’s not really about leading to better understanding or better information. It’s about right, you’re wrong, right? And I mean that I agree. I mean, it’s politics has always had some of that. And certainly, you know, different positions in industry has always had that. But I think we’re at a very divided time in society. It’s kind of disappointing. Yeah, it is.

Toban Dyck  08:55

And I think, like, I don’t know how you feel, Jay, but I I feel like I could be better at that when you’re in conversations and you and you disagree with somebody, yeah, like, for me, it takes, it got to summon a lot of confidence to be able to be like, I disagree and then put that forward like, I’m not used to that

Jay Whetter  09:12

a lot. Are you good at that telling people when they’re wrong, or maybe not when they’re wrong. But you know, what could you I would like you to consider this other point of view, please. Yeah,

Alanna Koch  09:21

you know, I’m probably not as I’m better than I’ve ever been, Jay, you know, so I used to be far, you know, far more positional than I am now, but I am very obviously have strong opinions and strong views, but I think I’m better at saying, Well, I’m interested to hear you say that I don’t agree, you know, here’s here’s what I think. But tell me more about why you think that. Because, you know, we’re coming from completely different places, but sort of want to end up with the best for the industry or the best for our kids or whatever, because I was on the school board, so sometimes I was involved in that, in the school board stuff, and I’m better than I’ve ever been. But. Oh man. Like, there’s always room for improvement. You know, what I don’t think we want is people who don’t take a position at all, like, that’s not okay either, right? Like, you know, you do eventually need to kind of get to the point and get to decisions and, you know, you got to be able to move forward.

Toban Dyck  10:14

And then maybe, maybe just for the for the audience, talk, talk a little bit about some of the, some of the boards that you’re on and some of your involvements, yeah,

Alanna Koch  10:21

yeah. Well, a farm just outside of Regina Saskatchewan with my husband Jerry, hurts. So it’s what we do, sort of, you know, all the time. But my board work is, I’m, I’m chair of the board for the Global Institute for Food Security, which is, you know, basically an innovation catalyst organization on campus at U of S, and really busy with that. And I’m also chair of the CN Agricultural Advisory Council. I am on the board of the Canadian agriculture Hall of Fame, and I’m on the board of seed master, which is, of course, a Precision Planting manufacturing business. Well respected, minimal till zero till seating technology company, and I am also, I do a little bit of public speaking, and I have a, like a very small consulting firm. And I’m also a member of the global farmer network, which is really just a it’s an international network of farm leaders, and so we talk about trade and technology. And I think that’s, I think that’s it

Jay Whetter  11:29

for now. So you had a question, well, I just want to bring it back to the debate, because I think I really like this, this notion where we, we kind of dig into a topic. So Alana, what do you think is, is a really leading issue within agriculture right now, something that really deserves more debate, something important enough that it’s, you know, the future of agriculture on the prairies. You know, not that it’s at stake, but it’s a, it’s a topic that that is really significant to farmers and to agribusiness in general, what should we what should we dig into? That’s

Alanna Koch  12:04

a big question. You know, I think, Well, for me, public trust always weighs heavy on my mind. I know maybe that feels like it’s been overdone, overplayed, but public trust, but you know, Sustainability also, and I see them completely linked. So, you know, I think we’ve got a big challenge and a big opportunity ahead in sustainability, and I think the same goes on public trust, because we’ve got a great story to tell. How do we make sure we tell it in the right way for consumers and and decision makers? I

Jay Whetter  12:34

think that’s a good one. So my my pushback there would be so

Toban Dyck  12:38

we’re not now. We’re This is the debate question. This is debate topic. So I’m, you’re taking a four or against stance right now. Oh, so I’m

Jay Whetter  12:45

gonna, let’s, I’ll take the, it’s not necessary stance. I’m not saying that. I’m I’m not saying that that’s my stance. But in a debate, you need to take a position. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. So, so Alana, why does it matter to farmers what the public thinks? Like it? I’m just throwing I say, we I don’t farm, but my family does. Yeah, you know, we go about our business. You know, in some ways, the less we deal with the public, the better. And we just, you know, as long as we can deliver grain to the elevator at a price we’re happy with, we make our decisions based on that. And what somebody in Toronto thinks about farmers doesn’t really, doesn’t really matter,

Alanna Koch  13:32

yeah, well, I mean, but I can see why some people think that, and I know a lot of farmers believe that, and it’s easy to do. We’ve got a business to do. We are busy feeding the world, and so kind of get out of our way and just let us do our job, right? But the reason why I think it matters, why it matters what Canadians and what the public thinks about how we farm and what we do, is because they ultimately influence the policy makers who decide what the rules are and whether we’re going to be, you know, sort of having access to all the tools and technology that allow us to feed the world and also be sustainable and profitable. Or will they take those tools and technologies away? And the reason they would take them away is because government would be pressured by the people, the voter, the public, to take those tools and technologies away. That’s why it matters. I mean, it’s also the right thing to do, because, of course, we should be transparent and communicate and say why we do what we do and how we do it and but I mean, ultimately, it’s, it’s, it’s really about what drives policy and regulation, and it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s governments, and governments are influenced by voters, and voters are the public that we need to connect with. We need to tell our story. Nobody else is going to do it for us. I

Jay Whetter  14:51

was in an event. It was in Ottawa earlier this year. You were on stage speaking, and you said, Nothing for farmers or nothing about farmers without farm. Farmers, that’s right, but you just said that policy is set by other people, so even though you would like us farmers to have, you know, more influence, yeah, are you conceding that that farmers actually don’t have much

Alanna Koch  15:14

oh no, oh no. Farmers have a lot of influence, absolutely. And I say not about farmers without farmers, because not only do governments make decisions that impact farmers, lots of businesses do, lots of organizations do lots of commissions do and so you know, you can’t make decisions for farmers about farmers without having the conversation with us and having us in the room. So no, I actually think that farmers too often underplay the impact that we have and the influence that we, you know, we can impart on good government and and good business decisions that impact us so often. Farmers say, Why do you bother going to Ottawa? You know, it’s just a black hole, and you go and, and it doesn’t matter, and, and, and it, I think it always matters. You always, you know, government’s run by the people who show up, so you have to show up, and then hopefully you have some really intelligent things to say and a really great story to tell. And if you don’t show up, well, then you can’t blame anybody for, you know, not listening to you and not taking your view into account because you didn’t show up. So absolutely, farmers have great influence. This is why we have to tell the story. This is why we have to share and we have to be transparent. Is because we do have a lot of influence.

Toban Dyck  16:27

I agree. I agree with that. So in your experience as Deputy Minister and in politics and being on the receiving end of some of that stuff, we challenge farmers to tell their story. We talk about that quite a bit, and I agree with you, is, there, can you go into a bit more detail and like, in terms of, like, how, how is that story best told in what, in what ways were, were the most impactful ones in your experience? Well,

Alanna Koch  16:52

I think lobbyists, you know, pure hired guns, though, they do have a role in sort of communicating with government decision makers. Seldom is that the best approach. I think for agriculture, maybe for everything. But, you know, I think there’s nothing like the real deal. There’s nothing like a farmer coming in and sitting across the table from those who are making decisions to best tell the story. Be realistic with an example of here’s why your policy regulation matters to me. Here’s the impact it has on me at the farm, on my family, on my community, on our country. I can say this because I’m in the business. I’m in the field every day, I’m raising my livestock every day. I’m selling my grain every year. You know, whatever the story might be. It’s just that real story that I think you know. Think about it. When you hear the real story from the person across the table from you, whether it’s a story about their family, their business, their experience, there’s nothing like the real deal, right? That’s where you get the most impact. And so I think too often, also, we’ve been focused on the science and the facts, not saying the science and facts don’t matter. Don’t matter. They clearly do. But I think what we’ve gotten better at and need to think about more and more in the future, is yes, take the science and facts, but then interpret it for the decision maker or that person you’re trying to influence. Because science and facts sometimes gets a bit complicated. It can get technical, it’s certainly boring. And so how do you make that connection? And so it’s, you know, storytelling maybe sounds fake. I’m not saying make up a story. I’m saying we have a great story, right? And so tell that story so that it connects with the person that you’re speaking with, so that it has an impact on them. It influences how they think and how they digest the science and the facts.

Jay Whetter  18:45

So taking that advice. How do you take your own advice? And whether you’re talking to MLAs from downtown Regina or MPs from Toronto, you don’t need to convince the Conservative MPs from the prairies, or the the MLA is from rural Saskatchewan. You need to convince the urban politicians. How do you? How do you, how do you reach? How do you, how do you know that you’re connecting with them? Like, how do you know a story is is resonating? Well,

Alanna Koch  19:19

I mean, I’d like to think that a story resonates when you can see there’s interest, engagement, maybe an emotional connect. You know, I’m an emotional reaction, body language, you know that that’s when you know that you’re, you’re, you’re connecting. And so, you know, I think it might be as as simple as, you know, on food production practices. And so, you know, I’ll talk about how we run a sustainable crop rotation for crop three year rotation. Why does that matter? You know, the food that we’re producing here is, is what I know eventually gets into grocery stores, and what moms buy for their their kids. And I’m a. Mom and now a grandma, and so that really matters to me. And so let’s talk about canola oil. So I know that, you know, GMO is something that people are worried about, but here’s how I can tell you about how we safely practice planting that canola, that that canola allows us to put fewer inputs on it has less environmental impact. That’s all we use here in my kitchen, when I’m cooking and baking is is GM canola oil. It’s one of the safest in the world. So I just want to have you understand that food is safe. The food we’re growing on our farms is safe. The technology allows us to have, you know, the least environmental impact. I use it here for our family and and and so tell me about why you’re worried about that, and then we have the conversation, right? So it’s so I don’t know. I mean a jade that that seems to work. I’m not going to say it works all the time, and clear that there are still people who are worried about our food. I think about the rail strike. That’s another example where you know was trying to influence decision makers, both government and opposition parties to, you know, do what they could so that we could avoid the strike because of the impact, yes, on farmers and the economy and on trade, but more importantly, on Canadians, on Canadians jobs, on the ability for Canadians to have access to chlorine that needed to be shipped on the rail line so that they could have safe drinking water. It really matters in people’s lives every day that we don’t have a rail strike. And so it’s making it real, sort of where people can understand, rather than the rail strike is bad for the economy and bad for trade, right? That’s true, but, but why does it matter? Like today, right now, you as a decision maker and a policy maker hope matters to Canadians for their jobs and their safe drinking water and access to food, and we’re going to have empty grocery shelves and etc.

Toban Dyck  21:50

I think on the policy side, it’s interesting when you think about storytelling and and it having an impact. Because I agree with you, and I would say the same thing, except I don’t have your experience, Alana, of being kind of on the receiving end of this, and being involved in in politics the way, the way you’ve been and do you have an example of a story that you know, someone’s come in and has actually moved the needle on policy, like, yeah, something that maybe you’ve either given or heard that’s come in when you’re a politician, that’s, I think some of the worst is coming from is one of the challenges is understanding some of this stuff. You hear it anecdotally, a lot that stories are very impactful, and they and they, you know, they resonate, and you try to make them as accessible as possible. And I agree with you. I think you know, for people who don’t, aren’t involved in politics that can exist as kind of like, yeah, it’s kind of high level. I guess that’s right. But does it actually work? Is it actually effective? Well, if

Alanna Koch  22:47

I think about myself when I was the deputy minister of Ag, I mean, I wasn’t a politician, but obviously worked side by side with politicians to make the right decisions in in Saskatchewan, you know, I’d have to kind of really think back to kind of a specific example, but think about the cattle groups when they came in and they were, you know, they were concerned about, you know, sort of all of the ways that the provincial government at that time was sort of doing work with our provincial cattle organizations. So the provincial government ran brand inspection, and the provincial government ran community pastures, and we were pretty involved in day to day business of of some of the cattle producers. And so I think, you know, when I sort of heard them come in and talk about, we want to understand how, you know the government is going to be managing pastures, we think there needs to be more investment. We want to be involved in decisions. We’re worried about brand inspection and, you know, have you got enough staff and and so I think what we heard from them, and as me, as the deputy minister, and also Minister of Agriculture at that time, what we heard was, we want more control of sort of what’s going on in our in our businesses, and it was kind of real life ranchers that were coming in and saying that. And so different decisions were made about how we were going to operate those in Saskatchewan because of of that concern that those producers had, that were we investing enough? Were we understanding their needs enough? And we probably weren’t, on either end of it. You know, that was pretty new in the government, in the new Brad wall government, that that we had these concerns brought and we completely changed how we do it. Brand inspection is now run by producers. Community pastures have been transferred directly to producers. The Government still owns the land, but the community pastures run their own boards and their own business, right? And so that’s where I guess that would be one example, you know, I think the other example, more current, would be a whole bunch of farm organizations as well as businesses. Obviously, when we were explaining to the federal government why a change in fertilizer policy at. Um, would matter, right? That it would actually reduce food production. It would create a less sustainable agricultural practices on farms in Canada, especially in Western Canada. And you know, there was, there obviously was sort of loud political pressure on them, because, you know, a lot of the industry was saying this was bad, but I think it was some of those personal stories that farmers, when they went in to see agriculture and agri food Canada and environmental and, you know, Climate Change Canada, as well as the politicians of us being able to say how this actually would make a difference as to how we could farm the impact it would have on productivity as well as our sustainability outcomes. I think ultimately that helped to drive the change in federal position on what they were going to do about how they were measuring fertilizer use and emissions from fertilizer use. I just wanted

Jay Whetter  25:59

to square that with public trust like so while you are we still debating, just

26:09

by myself?

Jay Whetter  26:19

Well, I’m just thinking about the, you know, the pushback from from farmers on the the nitrogen emissions reduction objective, and did that? Did that hurt public trust? Like, if farmers go and say, Yeah, we don’t really want to participate in this program to reduce emissions, because it’ll hurt our bottom lines. You know, I’m just, I’m, I’m not phrasing that in a farmer friendly way. I’m still kind of debating here, yeah, but so just so, so then, like, if public trust is important, why won’t? Why wouldn’t farmers then say, yeah, we’ll do our part here well, but

Alanna Koch  26:58

I think it is because we could explain the reason why we were opposed to it. In fact, lots of organizations said we need to do all we can on continuous improvement to remain sustainable, and, in fact, even get more sustainable in our practices. We already know we practice for our on fertilizer application. You know, it’s a big percentage, for sure, in Western Canada that’s practicing for our we need to see that expanded right across the country. We need to see that even, you know, get even further application. We’re committed to that. Here’s why it matters. We weren’t saying we don’t care about the environment. We think we’re doing all we can. You know, we’re the best we can be, so get out of our way. We weren’t seeing that. We were saying we’re open to getting better. We’ve already done some really great things. We’ve got some great sustainability outcomes. But yes, we care about the environment too. We’re doing all we can for our soil. Soil health matters to us. Environment matters to us. These are not, you know, separate goals. They they can be achieved together. We understand, you know, this is what Canadians care about. We care about it too, but we can’t, can’t grow food. If we go out of business and fertilizer, loss of access to fertilizer, either less use or more expensive, or not having access to anything at all is going to have a huge impact on food production and on our businesses, and so then you’re going to have to get your food from other places that has far more environmental impact than what we’re growing. So we care. We know you do too. We’re going to do our best.

Jay Whetter  28:35

Yeah, did that work? Alana like, or did we just kick the can down the road? Or is that, are we? Are we in a spot now where, where the federal government now understands, okay, right? That was a wrong policy. Let’s, let’s do this. You

Alanna Koch  28:50

know? I don’t, I don’t think it was a kick the can down the road. I I think sustainability and the demand by decision makers and the public that is now there forever, like we’re fooling ourselves if we think that, oh, sustainability is just, you know, it’s just a fad, a flavor of the day, and we’re not going to have to worry about it. That’s here to stay. So I don’t think that this goes away. I think this is always going to be a challenge for us. Is to make sure this access to tools and technologies is what keeps me awake at night, right? Policy? What keeps me awake at night? I’m not worried about whether Jerry and I can grow food and do it well and try to do it as profitably as we can. That’s not what keeps me awake at night. So, you know, this is the ongoing challenge for us. Is governments come and go so their their view of how policy gets applied is certainly going to shift depending on which party is in power. And I I think we’re going to see a change in in federal government. So then I think what will happen is a little more balance might come back into decision making on Yes, the environment matters, but so does the economy, and so does. Of you know, those, those social questions that we ask about communities and and and jobs and things like that, right? So I’m hoping we’re going to see a little more balance when it comes to policy. Who knows, but sustainability, that environmental pressure the public looking in, wondering what we’re doing. And you know, why do we do what we do? That’s here to stay. That’s why sustainability and public trust is going to matter now and always.

Toban Dyck  30:22

Do you think? Do you think more farmers should get involved in policy,

Alanna Koch  30:27

more more involved in policy? Or yeah, or Yeah, telling

Toban Dyck  30:31

you said, telling their stories. So, telling

Alanna Koch  30:33

our story, yeah, yeah. So, so Toban, I think you know what I’ve said. I’ve done presentations at various agriculture meetings about this whole public trust issue, and I’ve used the energy sector as the great poster child for kind of what not to do. You know, pressure was coming at the energy sector for years about people being worried about, you know, was our energy production great? And should we be changing how they do business. And the energy sector was doing a lot of great things, and was very innovative, and in fact, we have the most sustainable energy sector in the world. But what they failed to do was tell their story. In fact, what they said is, get out of our way. We’re busy doing our business. We’re good. You’re always going to need our energy. Thanks very much. And agriculture was a little bit going down that path, and that’s not okay. And so what I would say at agriculture events, when I was speaking of public trust, is, it’s not going away. It matters. Don’t do what, what the energy sector did, which is ignore it at at our cost. It’s it’s, how do we tell our story and get better at it? But I also did say Toban, not everybody’s great at telling that story. If you’re going to be an angry farmer that goes out and says, Get out of my way. I’m feeding the world. Just let me do my business. So you don’t have any right to tell me what I’m doing. That’s not helpful. So what I’ve said is, for farmers who can’t figure out how to constructively engage in the dialog and tell our story. What would be great is, could you send your money to farm and food care, to agriculture in the classroom, to the Canadian Center for Food Integrity, or to those who are trying, you know, Canadian food focus. I mean, we’ve got a few really great vehicles to tell their story. Please don’t go tell your story if you if you’re going to be an angry farmer, but help some others tell the story. There’s lots of great organizations who are doing a good job of that. I

Toban Dyck  32:28

think so. One of the things is, what I hear over and over again is kind of a decreasing amount of capacity for agriculture within government, whether it’s provincial or federal. So our politicians don’t know what it’s like to farm, or some of our bureaucrats don’t know what. Some of the researchers too. Some researchers don’t know what, what it’s like to run, to run a farm. Do you see an opportunity? How can we help with that? How can we as an industry kind of inject some of that capacity or help help these various forms of government understand the needs of the of the farmer. Yeah,

Alanna Koch  33:05

isn’t it? Isn’t it fair to say that governments, whether they’re elected or it’s it’s public servants who are hired to do work, or it’s researchers, they’re just a reflection of society. The reality is, is there’s fewer and fewer of us involved in growing food. There’s fewer and fewer of us running farms. It’s just the reality of of the economy and of farmers. So we shouldn’t then be surprised that that they don’t have great agricultural experience, they don’t really understand our business. So I think what we need to think about doing, and we’re starting to see a little bit of it through certain organizations is, you know, open Farm Days, opening up our operations to invite the public in, connecting with children, connecting with teachers, connecting with nutritionists and dietitians and people who are involved in the food industry, even having, you know, certain ag Experience days. So like at the Global Institute for Food Security, we’ve got a lot of really smart researchers who work with our organization, our institute, you know, from all over the world, as well as Canadians who work at gifts. We went out to ag in motion for a few hours, and we showed them the equipment. Jerry and I toured people around. We talked about this work you’re doing, you know, on canola or on whatever the project is that’s going on at gifts. Here’s how it really matters, but here’s how your technology is going to be applied at scale. And you know, some of those researchers, yes, knew scale and had been to farms, but some hadn’t, and I think it was mind blowing for them, but really relevant, right? So how can we take that and think about doing that for agriculture and agri food Canada, for politicians, for decision makers, both provincially and federally, invite them to our farms and have them experience kind of the story. Retailing right in the field. That’s, that’s how I think that’s going to

Jay Whetter  35:04

have to happen. Yeah, you mentioned community earlier. And Eden wold, how is, how is Eden world doing? Ed, how is your community doing? Yeah, you know,

Alanna Koch  35:14

Ed mold has been like 200 people since I was growing up. But the difference is, is there was way more farms around the community, but the but the village Eden malt, has always been about the same size, but we have seen a resurgence of the energy of the community, because we have a ton of young families who have moved out, some who are involved in agriculture, but you know, some who who aren’t, some who commute to Regina, which is like a half an hour away, lots of home businesses now we have a vibrant community. In fact, a new daycare is just being built and opens October 15, which is super exciting because we have so many young families and it’s already maxed out. Yeah, we’ve got a really exciting little community here. It’s very vibrant, with lots of really active young families, which is pretty cool to see. I know that’s not the case for every community. Helps that we’re close to a large city, yeah.

Toban Dyck  36:06

So were you instrumental in building that daycare Atlanta? Uh,

Alanna Koch  36:10

well, Jerry and I helped to just in donating, and we out of a chain link fence that we’ve donated that was around a property don’t need anymore. And so we’ve been, we’ve been helping, and it’s lots of my family, you know, who’s on the board and helping. So, yeah, I mean, we’re not, we’re doing very little compared to what so many others are doing. So of

Jay Whetter  36:30

course, yeah, what was, when did you know that you were a leader? Like, when did you have that sense that,

Toban Dyck  36:37

did you wake up one day? Oh, I’m going to be amazing. Grade

Jay Whetter  36:42

six, just before you went to high school, you’re like, Yeah, strutting into grade seven. When did you know you were a

Toban Dyck  36:51

letter doesn’t strut,

Alanna Koch  36:55

you know, like I wasn’t. I got involved in the src, right, the Student Leadership Council. And so I got, I got on the SRC in grade nine, like I, I don’t know that, I thought I was a leader, but I was always interested in, I don’t know, being on every possible council there was and and that sort of stuck with me. I went to university. I was on the Ag Students Association. And then, I mean, I, I left university. I didn’t, I didn’t finish my degree. I left at like, 18 and started working. And just was always in jobs that, you know, kind of ended up sort of shoving me along and and putting me into jobs that were probably always bigger than me. So I was probably, you know, always under capacity for the jobs I was doing. But as a result, you stretch and and grow. And I had really great people that I worked with that would say you should go and do this. And seldom did I think I should or want to. But, you know, there was like an open door, and so I got a good swift kick, and kind of got shoved through that door, and miraculously I ended up, you know, enjoying the experience and somehow being successful. But so often it’s the people you know, the people you work with, that make you better. Yeah,

Jay Whetter  38:05

well, an extension is is sort of being a leader or, like, trying to guide the industry along. So how do you meant you personally, like, how do you identify and then mentor people you think should be the next leader? Yeah,

Toban Dyck  38:22

what would you say when? What would you say to them? Yeah, yeah.

Alanna Koch  38:26

Well, you know, luckily enough, I’ve had a few, almost always, young women who have asked, you know, reached out to me and said, Hey, would you, would you mentor me? And I’m always so amazed by that, because, you know, I didn’t even know what a mentor was when I was 18. I just was lucky to be mentored by some amazing people. You know, Lauren Hepworth would be one that I would mention, like just an amazing mentor. I didn’t know what that meant, but clearly, that’s what was happening. So the fact that some of these young women are now approaching me, you know, sort of saying, Hey, would would you mentor me? I mean, that’s just so amazing to me. But I’ve also had lots of, lots of, you know, young men, you know that I’ve had a chance to, you know, work with that, you know, they’ll say to me, oh, you know, I view you as a mentor. And I’m always amazed by that. So I think when I’ve reached out, or people have reached out to me, You know what, what comes to mind is, first of all, do people have the willingness to sort of stretch, change, grow, you know, are they open to other opinions? Are they willing to, you know, sort of take on new challenges if they’re stuck, or they’re unwilling, or they’re really taking sort of no interest, like, no interest in in what they’re doing, or, you know, they don’t like anything that they’re doing. They’re not passionate about anything. It’s pretty hard to mentor those kind of people. I’m not going to invest a lot of time. Yeah, you know, I always say you have to be present when you’re where you’re present, like so often people are, they’re doing their job and they’re thinking, I don’t like this job, and I just can’t wait to go home, and I can’t. Wait for the day to be over. Me, I don’t want to work with those people. That’s pretty tall, and they’re not going to put their best foot forward, and I can help them then, right? So, yeah,

Toban Dyck  40:11

yeah. If you, if you could create, like, the ideal agricultural champion today, what would that person look like? Or, what would that? Yeah, what would that? What would that look like for you, assuming you’re not it which you are, but say you’re not, say you’re not in the picture that space that needs to be filled. What does that look like?

Alanna Koch  40:29

Wow, energy, you know, great community or, sorry, great communicator, passionate, you know, hard worker, just really willing to engage and and and and go to events. And, you know, I always say to people like, when you think of a full room of people, you know, do you say, Oh, I can’t wait to get in there and talk to every single person in that room. Or do you say, Oh, my God, I have to go in that room and talk to every single person. And if you can be that person who says, I get to go in and meet that whole room of people and talk to everybody, man, this is going to be great. Well, that is just a tremendous skill and gift. When people can be energized by people, they would be the best agriculture champion because they want to go out and talk to everybody and engage with everybody and learn from everybody. If you find it exhausting. It’s way more difficult. It’s not impossible, but it’s way more difficult. Takes a lot of energy to gun yourself up, to get out there and talk to everybody that’s that’s a real gift.

Jay Whetter  41:28

Alana, there’s a lot of opportunities to get on boards in agriculture on the prairies and nationally. But this goes back to back to Ottawa. And why are you laughing? Well, I’m laughing because I’m gonna kind of tear down what I just set up. But I feel like, are there? You sometimes feel like there are too many organizations speaking for farmers. You’re gonna go there. Yeah, I’m gonna go there because Atlanta will. Atlanta will know at least have an idea like when it comes to presenting the farmer perspective on Parliament Hill, like, are, are there too many people or organizations speaking for agriculture?

Alanna Koch  42:11

Yeah, you know, there are two sides to this conversation, Jay, because when I, you know, when I’ve been in the industry and been, you know, part of organizations that are trying to make change and and get get the message across, versus being in government, you know when, when we would have, you know, organizations coming in to see us. So what I think is, is that we on the business side, and on the on the side of where what we want is kind of less government intervention. We tend to think that we should have fewer organizations that need to go and just get a clear message to the decision makers, because then it’s it’s very straightforward, it’s very business like it’s very compact and very efficient. And so let’s just do that. The trouble is, is that the other side of the debate, which is probably looking for more government intervention, you know, more regulation, they tend to have a group for everything. It’s a group for less business, it’s a group for less trade, it’s a group for climate protection. It’s they may only have 10 members in the group, but they’ve got a group for every single thing, and they all go and have meetings. So when government is hearing from those groups, and they see there’s 12 groups coming in that are sort of anti open policy and regulation, and then three that are coming in saying, We want less government intervention, the trouble is is they don’t know who all of those organizations are representing. So we’ve got to be cautious. Clearly, from a farmer perspective, we don’t want to have a million organizations. First of all, that’s costly for farmers when we think about our check offs and other things. But we also can’t pare it down so much that there’s only a few voices that represent us, because the other side is always going to have a litany of organizations, and so it’s a fine balance. There, Jay is what I would say. So could we be better at coalition efforts? Could we be better? I always say, you know, many voices, one message on public trust, right? Public Trust is a huge issue. And I think a lot of organizations, for too long were saying we don’t even need to talk about it. It’s not an issue. I think we’re getting better, better at kind of many voices, one message on public trust, and we’re getting there in sustainability. I’m not sure we’re there yet, but we, you know, we’ve got to get better at at sort of all singing from the same song sheet, but bringing a different perspective as to how we got that song, you know? So, we’re a canola grower, we’re a wheat grower, we’re a cattle producer, we’re a pork producer, we’re a food company, you know, we’re a seed company. We all should be singing the same song.

Jay Whetter  44:59

Oh, I’m. Just, I’m envisioning all of these pop stars singing, we are the world, you know. So it’s all of these, all these organizations all singing,

45:10

virtually, we are the farmers, yeah,

Alanna Koch  45:13

because it’s easy to say we have too many organizations, and it could be true. I mean, do we need one, you know, maybe one, you know, sort of that represents all cereal production in each province. Maybe that way we wouldn’t be, you know, a bad idea. We probably could see some consolidation. But I don’t think we want one commission in every province, because the trouble is, is then it’s, it’s then it’s hard to get then into the details, because you can all agree on motherhood and apple pie, but you can’t agree on the details, so you need some people to worry about the details, but you all should be thinking about motherhood and apple pie, and sometimes I’m not sure we even have all of us thinking about that. So maybe I sound like I’m arguing myself now, Jay, like you were, but you know, we can’t consolidate too much because there are so many voices, usually on the other side, and they’re not worried about efficiency or consolidation or, you know, gee, do we really, really represent many? They don’t care if they represent 10 or five or two, they’re going to go lobby. And that was my experience as a deputy minister. Is what we could get better at is the messaging being crystal clear, having our asks crystal clear and more consistent, because then it’s easier for governments to coalesce around those decisions. And that’s where, maybe where we haven’t got that quite figured out yet.

Toban Dyck  46:36

We could talk a lot about policy more, and I usually fill up another hour, especially, yeah, talking about needs and challenges, provincially and federally. I think that’s a really, I think there’s some really, yeah, there’s some real opportunities there, but I

Jay Whetter  46:49

just Yeah. So I want, I want to ask you, Alana, and this is, this is the last question for me. But when you came on this podcast, was there something that you wrote down in your notes and say, I want to make sure I say this, like, is there, is there something that we didn’t ask you about, or something you didn’t get a chance to say that you really wanted to? It’s

Toban Dyck  47:09

like an airing of grievance. How have we disappointed you?

Alanna Koch  47:15

No, no. You know, the only thing I thought that, that I thought we would talk about is, is gifts like the Global Institute for Food Security. So of course, I was, you know, wanting to make sure that I had my messages on that, just because I’m the Chair of the Board of that. So I thought, Well, maybe you guys want to talk about that, but, and we do for sure, yeah, so that that’s, that’s the only thing you know, just that this organization, which is pretty unique in Canada, exists in Saskatoon, but we work, you know, nationally. We work globally. You know, we have some equipment for whether it’s accelerated breeding or an engineering biology platform, or even some of the staff we have, you know, geneticists and like just some pretty amazing, smart people from all over the world who work in Saskatoon at gifts, who, you know, we’ve got equipment that is kind of one of a kind of Canada, or maybe two or three of a kind in North America, three or five a kind of in the world, in Saskatoon as a capacity for our sector, that’s pretty cool. I just don’t think a lot of people know about us yet, so we’re trying to get that message out. And of course, we’ve done this really interesting study on sustainability and on production in Canada. We have a policy and regulatory arm of guests, and so we did the sustainability study that, you know, proves up Canadian practices as for crop production, we are the most sustainable in the world as compared to other key competitors. So anyway, I like to wave that flag, because that’s not really gifts. That’s not gift success. That’s That’s Canadian agriculture, especially Western Canadian agriculture, particularly Saskatchewan agriculture, success, which I think, you know, we’ve got a great story to tell, and we were just lucky to be able to do the study and kind of put that information together. So yeah, anyway, that’s what I wanted to say. So that’s it,

Toban Dyck  49:07

and that and that study, study is out and public. Yes,

Alanna Koch  49:10

it’s public. It’s on our gifts website. So you just go into the gifts website and there’s a top button there that says sustainability and all the data. Now it’s 100 and some page study, if you want to get into the minutia of the study proving up how it’s internationally accepted analysis to determine the sustainability outcomes. So you know, the study was done in cooperation with some researchers in British Columbia, and so it’s world renowned, you know, and accepted principles on the analysis of the carbon life cycle, analysis of crop production. But there are some slides that are very visually IMPACTFUL, showing our canola results are spring wheat, Durham and. And peas, which is like phenomenal, were like hundreds of percentage lowest and lower environmental impact than some of our competitors. So yeah, and some companies are using that data to now sell some of their production to to their global customers. Because, for example, on peas, you know, there’s a company in Saskatchewan that’s using that data to sell peas to a company in France, where they said, Well, we’re using our own domestic production because it’s, you know, we’re worried about the environmental footprint. And so then we showed our environmental footprint on pea production in Saskatchewan compared to France was like hundreds of hundreds and hundreds of percentage lower environmental impact. They’re now selling peas to France. Cool, very cool. Yeah.

Jay Whetter  50:52

And that comes back to the sustainability and public trust message that we started with, and it just helps to prove that gonna, I don’t know, say, you know, we got this sort of thing, or we’re interested in this, or this means a lot to us, as well as a message to everyone else,

Alanna Koch  51:09

yeah, yeah, for sure. I

Toban Dyck  51:10

mean, that sounds like a whole nother podcast episodes, talking talking about gifts. I think that’s, that’s a good yeah, for sure. Absolutely. When we get you back Atlanta for episode, for the next episode, then we’ll we can talk about that.

Alanna Koch  51:22

Well, I don’t, I don’t know what you were expecting out of the conversation, but it was easy. I thought it was gonna be very difficult and painful, and you guys were gonna, like, really make me feel like I didn’t do very well. But apparently, it went okay, difficult and painful. I think that’s our new slogan, yeah, exactly.

Alanna Koch  51:44

Where do I sign that? Where do I

Toban Dyck  51:46

That’s right, how do I get involved? Well, we appreciate you taking the time. A lotta. It’s an honor. It’s an honor to chat with you. And

Jay Whetter  51:55

thanks a lot. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah. Say hi to Jerry.

Toban Dyck  52:01

I found it really interesting that you went to the like talking about the groups, if there are too many groups. Yeah, it’s a good question.

Jay Whetter  52:08

I figured Alana would have a thought on that, and she had to answer that very well. I thought so too. I thought so too. Is it? I think she did. She did. My takeaway was that she’s She supported the notion of of all of these groups, and there are places to work together. There are places. Maybe there are some potential mergers out there still, but all of these groups have a place. We just need to do the old We Are the World singing from the same song. Yeah, I can see how Alana is so successful in her leadership roles, because she doesn’t come across as pretentious or pushy, incredibly smart, very well spoken, and really keen and interested, and, you know, has a goal or a direction, yeah,

Toban Dyck  52:55

yeah. And the energy too, yeah, like, you know, to still kind of think about going to conferences, like, I don’t know how you are at conferences, but I can, I’ve many things at a conference, right? Like, I can be, I can enter a big room and get excited for talk about talking to everybody. But I can also enter a big room and look for that spot in the corner where I can be by myself for a little bit, like, kind of everybody needs to recharge to get that but in most often I’m excited to chat, but, but yeah, for her to continue to kind of view those things that ways, it’s a very impressive, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really enjoyed it. And like, retirement, or like, kind of easing into retirement for for Atlanta looks like just a lot of more busy things, right? Like, it’s golf, it’s travel, it’s like, and more boards and more boards. That’s wild. But that was a that was a really good conversation. I really liked the idea, though, like her perspective on storytelling, and how stories actually do move the needle on policy. Like i You hear that, I’ve heard that so often, but the more times I hear it from people who’ve witnessed that, like who’ve been like her on the receiving end of that, and know how that can move policy stories can that’s that’s that to me anyway, it’s impactful well, and

Jay Whetter  54:18

I think I didn’t ask her about this, but it was kind of in the back of my mind, like I mind, like, if you live in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver, the notion of living in a town of 200 people is as foreign to them as living in Antarctica. You know, I think so. I really think you could, you could have some really interesting stories or sharing, or just saying, Yeah, this is what small child life is like. There’s lots of new things going on. Toban, we’ve got a new podcast, the extensions. We also have a new sponsor, SAS canola and sasklax merged on August 1, and they are now sasqual seeds, and they are also offering a texting service for anyone. Wants to know more about events, association, details, even agronomy services. If you have a question for them, they will answer it’s not just a one way communication. I think

Toban Dyck  55:10

that’s great. I think that’s brilliant for commodity groups to do stuff like that.

Jay Whetter  55:14

Yeah, and you can sign up at SAS canola.com/texting, this has been a burr forest group production. We also want to thank the people you don’t see. We’re here.

Toban Dyck  55:27

We’re chatting away with our guests, but there’s tons of people who work behind the scenes to make this podcast happen. Brian Sanchez, our director, Ashley Robinson, is the coordinator, and Abby wall is our producer and editor. You

Jay Whetter  55:44

thank you for listening. We are the extensionists conversations with great thinkers in agriculture like alanica. My name is Jay wetter and

Toban Dyck  55:53

I’m Toban Dyck till next time you.