Episode 22:

Rupp Carriveau

Transcript

Toban Dyck  00:03

This is the extension this conversations with great thinkers in agriculture. I’m Toban Dyck and I’m Jay Wen. Hey, Jay, hey, Toban. How’s it going? Good. Excited about today’s guest.

Jay Whetter  00:18

I am like, it’s, it’s a world that I don’t know very well, the green world of greenhouses and but I’m really excited to talk to Rob. Can I tell a little story? You can Yeah. So I was on the Manitoba canola growers research camp tour, and was talking to a couple of the researchers, and they’re both working on a similar problem, but they and they work in the same building at the same institution, but they didn’t know that they were both working on this, this problem. And I think it That was shocking for me, and a little bit frustrating, because we I think this happens too much in Canada, where we’ve got institutions working on, on similar I’m working the world of canola, so, I mean, let’s just say black leg, sure. So maybe that’s not anyway, let’s just say black like, whatever. So we’ve got, we’ve got U of M doing black leg, U of A doing black leg, University of Saskatchewan, AG, Canada, etc, etc. Do they, do they? Are they working together, or are they in their little silos? And the canola Council does kind of help, because it does often have, like working groups for these, for these big, major, major problems. So, so there is that happening, but, but then to see these two who are within one of these realms, in the world of canola, not knowing what each is doing within, within the same within the same building, yeah, within the same building, at the same institution, yeah, I feel like there’s, that’s the proverbial low hanging fruit. So let’s make sure we’re checking in with everybody. And we, first of all, we know everybody who’s doing any research in this problem all across the country, and then make sure that they, they share what they’re working on. And then we kind of push toward collaboration, or at least sharing, so that we’re not doubling up. We’re learning from each other anyway that so that’s RUP is going to define for us in this, this upcoming conversation. I hope some of the work he’s doing to to break down those silos and get those conversations happening within the University of Windsor specifically, but and also within the world of greenhouses, right? He’s got two, two things going on.

Toban Dyck  02:39

I think that’d be, yeah, I think that’s a really strong anecdote, because I feel like that happens often, yeah, where the, you know, the left arm doesn’t know what the right arm is doing, I think. And, yeah, and I think that’s a worthy, you know, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve heard this from our guests before in various capacities, or various, you know, ways that that is a problem like that, collaboration is so key to all of this. And it’s, you know, and it’s a tricky one, right? Like, how do you who’s the onus on right? If you’re a researcher, is the onus on you to make sure that everybody knows what you’re doing? Yeah, you know is, how do these, how does this? How does this all work? And I mean, then you have people who are just at capacity. I mean, it’s having to collaborate. Might just, might just be one more, one more thing that they don’t have time for. So how do you create models that, that, that that facilitate, that

Jay Whetter  03:35

make it easy as possible, make it as easy. So it comes down to who is it the is it the is it the commodity groups? Is it the universities? Is there a network within the universities? Again, it’s people. People need to care enough to make this stuff happen.

Toban Dyck  03:49

No, or is it? I mean, this is just thinking of the top of my head, but like, or is it, is it, is it necessary? Like, if you have, like, funding requirements from what you’re saying, Is there, like, you have to, you have to Canvas, or you have to collaborate. Yeah, right, and this is what that looks like.

Jay Whetter  04:06

Or there’s, or there’s budget set aside in each project for the collaboration,

Toban Dyck  04:13

yeah, or does each cluster have its own, have its own person who ensures that everybody knows what’s going you know, there’d be I’d be interested to hear, but yeah, anyways, I’m very interested to hear what, what ruff has to say about this.

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Jay Whetter  04:51

Hey there listeners. If you’re enjoying the conversations here on the extensionist, you would probably love to get our newsletter.

Toban Dyck  04:57

Yeah, it’s the best way to stay connected with us. Us with Jay and and myself. Yours truly, I’m excited about the newsletter to be honest with you, because I think, well, so many of our guests have sorry. Why are you excited? They say that differently, Jay, so many of our guests are. They say so many things of interest, right? And I feel like the newsletter will be a great will be a great way to share that with our listeners,

Jay Whetter  05:23

like quick take homes, yeah, summaries, yeah, absolutely, one liner,

Toban Dyck  05:27

absolutely, absolutely, I think about each each guest, we could probably write a whole bunch of articles from each of our guests, right? So to give our our newsletter subscribers, like summaries of, you know, the key takeaways of these things, plus plus information on upcoming guests. All they got to do, all listeners have to do is go to the extensions calm and follow the prompts to sign up. I think it’ll be I think it’ll be great.

Jay Whetter  05:58

Welcome to the podcast, Rob. We’ve got Rob caraveau, who’s a professor in the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering at the University of Windsor, and also co director of ag. You win agriculture, and then you win University of Windsor. Rob, you’re also heavily involved in greenhouses, which is a big industry down there, which we’ll get to eventually. But before we do that, we want to talk about some of the talk about some of the things that kind of make Rob Rob, hiking, cars, football, coaching, Toban,

Toban Dyck  06:30

what you like that stuff? The connection to fruit and vegetable grows in Canada. Yeah. I do like that stuff. I do like. What do you okay. Do you want to talk cars, hiking, also, also, also, pierogies, Mexican food, okay, you like all those so far, so far. Rupp and I are kindred spirits. Yeah, yeah. So hikes, I guess, a question to tie this on. So, do you have a favorite? Do you have a favorite hike or a good hiking story?

Rupp Carriveau  06:58

Well, yeah, I mean, I guess the first one that comes to mind passion already would be, would be grand view. I think it’s called Grandview trail in the Grand Canyon. I had done the Bright Angel Trail before in the Grand Canyon, which is a wide one, they bring the donkeys down and and, and we were going back to do some camping in the Grand Canyon. And the only one that was available was this, was this grand view trail. I said, Oh, it sounds fine. We got the back country permit. Anyway. There was, long story short, there was a reason why it was available. It was pretty treacherous. And I don’t, I have a fear of falling, not so much a fear of heights, but, but so I it that put me off hiking for a while. I felt like I was staring down the barrel of a loaded gun for like, four hours that, you know, and I’ve seen there’s people that are far more Intrepid, that wouldn’t be bothered by like, you know, something a trail that’s inches wide in spots, but, but it unnerved me, so I was, I won’t do that again, but, but, no, I enjoy, I enjoy, think, closer to home. I like, you know, the Bruce Trail, the stuff around things like lion’s head in Ontario and those, those places. I mean, Canada’s rich, rich, rich with with that stuff. And frankly, from where I live, it’s easier to go into the US to more interesting hiking destinations. It’s just shorter for me.

Toban Dyck  08:32

Yeah, for sure. Do you use all trails? Do you have an app that you or do you have a better app that you use?

Rupp Carriveau  08:38

No, no. Those are good. Those are good. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s incredible. I mean, again, speaks to my age, but like I, you know, we just go by word of mouth, right? But now it’s, the resources are wonderful, because you can get updates on the condition of the trail and pictures and things, which is really nice.

Jay Whetter  08:56

So just on the hiking thing, in the communications word of mouth, that’s there’s kind of something we could get to later, just on the extension of ideas and how face to face, or word of mouth is almost more effective often than social. But you said back at the Grand View Trail, which does sound sort of kind of nice and easy, like I’m walking on the Grand View trail, but if I trip, I’m tumbling a mile down into the bottom of the Grand Canyon. So you said you’re looking down the barrel of a loaded gun. Is that just because one false move and you’re you’re tumbling for Yeah, 1000s of feet.

Rupp Carriveau  09:31

That’s how I felt. The upside was when I emerged the, you know, the appreciation for life is through the roof. Like, you know, the risk, reward thing, right? It’s really something like, I think back to that, and it was remarkable. I’m not sure I’m willing to do it again, but, but it’s quite a natural high.

Toban Dyck  09:55

I feel like I’m gonna need this trail, actually, after this interview and see, do. Yeah, that’s awesome. So are you? Are you an F? You’re a fan of cars. What if you have a car that you own? I’d love to hear about it. But are you a fan of f1? Is that a

Rupp Carriveau  10:11

well, you know, I would say I was, until I saw that movie,

Toban Dyck  10:17

like the Brad Pitt movie,

Rupp Carriveau  10:19

that was, yeah, that was, that was, that was a bit of a letdown for me. I apparently it had some good reviews. Wasn’t good for me. But no, I am. I like, I like motorsports in general. There’s too, there’s too much of it to follow. Like, you know, I, I try to keep up a little bit with f1 it’s easy because it’s relatively small. But I mean, like I took my daughters to we took my daughters to the NASCAR Hall of Fame in Charlotte, and right around that was right around the time that the cars movies were big and Lightning McQueen was there. So all that stuff is really exciting to me. And just being around cars, I really enjoy, and, yeah, and I like, and I like driving. I like driving. I like driving cars. And I I, I have a couple, you know, I have a couple cars that I have, you know, stolen for sticker price or less. You know that I’ve, you know, worked hard, and I guess I’ll be selling those if I want to retire, because I don’t have any retirement savings now. So, I mean, yeah, I’m a terrible financial manager. Don’t, don’t tell that to the people that I do financial management for. But, but for myself, not so good, not so good.

Jay Whetter  11:43

I love it. You can manage other people’s money, yeah?

Rupp Carriveau  11:47

Oh, absolutely, yeah. No, I wouldn’t do that to them.

Toban Dyck  11:52

No, of course not again. Then I

Jay Whetter  11:56

just want to touch on the football thing, because that’s kind of interesting to me. So you said you’ve got two daughters, and you’re coaching them football?

Rupp Carriveau  12:03

Yeah, so and again, coaching is a stretch, like I would say, you know, so my dad, my dad, was a football coach, and I played for him, and I and I, and I played after that too. So I really like football, and I like, I like watching it, and I just wanted more ways to sort of, I guess, have shared experiences with my kids, which is not unusual for folks, yeah. So being football, being a fair size of the time portfolio, I thought I better get them integrated and and they seem, they seem willing, because, I think, you know, they, they really enjoy the the pageantry of particularly, and I hate to say it, but particularly the American football, just because it’s a little bit more accessible media wise. And again, given, frankly, given my geographic position here, and I have, and I have a half of my family is American.

Jay Whetter  13:06

So, so, okay, but one so you must have been to the big house at Michigan, then have you for a game.

Rupp Carriveau  13:14

You know? You know? What do you know? What’s funny? I haven’t really, I Oh, no, no. It’s odd. My dedication is largely been to Canadian, Canadian University football, or or or American professional football. So many times to the then, at the time it was the Pontiac Silverdome, now Ford Field. I’ve been a number of times to Cleveland stadium to see the browns, been to see the Colts, but I’m a lifelong chargers fan, so lions being number two because of proximity. But, but, yeah. So, so, yeah. So I do, I do a little camp. I do a little football camp at the university, for, for, for my, my daughters and girls their age, because they’re just, I can coerce their friends. It’s like, it’s awkward for them if they don’t come to the camp, because they’re going to see me when they come over to, you know, whatever. But what are they going to say, right? Yeah, it says, like, Where were you? I love it. My daughters have the, you know, the app that shows where everybody’s at. It’s like, but you see, it looks like you were at the mall to me, you know, you said you were out of town. And I have leverage on my kids, so, you know, they will do what I ask them to do. So great. I love it. Yeah.

Toban Dyck  14:39

Oh, that’s good. That’s so good. So we, you know, talk about these personal things and all that stuff. So you are an engineer, and I’m always curious about, how does your does your professional life intersect with your with your with your passions at all? Do you you apply kind of an engineering lens to to how you. How you take in motorsports or football or hiking?

Rupp Carriveau  15:05

Well, I guess I think so. I do think so. But I mean, I think in the same way that most people just are curious, right? I don’t, you know I I’m around like real engineers often, and that’s not really who I am. Like, you know, I pass the tests and those things, but I mean, like, I’m, I’m always there. I have to look at things very, very simply to understand them all the time. I’m always slow. I’m the last one to understand something so it, you know, but my curiosity runs high all the time, so I always have questions, a lot of questions. So, yeah, it’s in it that stuff, it again, things that move or grow really, really fascinate me.

Jay Whetter  15:53

That modesty, obviously curiosity is important if you’re a communicator and you’re trying to develop or push something forward. But I think it’s always being and I know you’re joking, but being the slowest person in the room means you’re asking the questions that are really often going to get to the root of an issue, and where other people

Toban Dyck  16:16

and you’re often asking questions that other people probably have too but right, too scared,

Jay Whetter  16:20

yeah, so you come across as being the dummy you asked to ask this, this question. This is this, I’m thinking about myself now, where to your point? Toban, everyone is often thinking it but, but you’re, you’re okay, asking it on everyone else’s behalf. And then there’s group, kind of group learning that you’ve helped facilitate which I think is real, really important. And so I don’t know, what can we transition into some of these agencies that you’re working on? Because I do whatever you want. Jay, well, I do want to talk about the greenhouse Research Network. And, AG, you win. Which, which rough, which one would you like to lead off with? And I just want to know what they are and what the goals are and how you are involved.

Rupp Carriveau  17:07

Yeah, yeah, of course, maybe we’ll start with AGG, you win, because I guess it’s institutionally closest to me. So I have been working in the greenhouse space here, in a research capacity for probably 15 years, I think specifically with, you know, I had a really nice grower, Chris del Greco, under sun acres. He kind of, he, he gave me, he gave me a shot, which was really nice. And so he, he and I still, I still work with Chris extensively. He’s a very progressive, very progressive grower, and I learned from him. I just can’t keep up with him like and frankly, it stresses me out and and that that archetype is pretty common in in the in that spin, the greenhouse space like it’s very stressful segment to work in, because it’s just all about action, and the stakes are so high. So but I was attracted. I as a kid, I actually built little, tiny, tiny greenhouses, because I I was really good at making things that were simple geometries, again, like the slowest kid, you know, bang, bang, bang. But, and my dad was really into gardening. So, so, you know, I wanted to do little things, like put little thermostats on things and stuff. So I, I liked it. So I really wanted to be involved with greenhouses, and so this was my chance. And so Chris gave me that chance. And, and, and then I kept coming back to the university saying, oh, there’s so much opportunity out there. Like, holy smokes, the technologies, and there’s all these things, but, and everybody’s doing, everybody thinks they’re optimized. But I, you know, I guess mathematically speaking, I know you can have a Pareto front that covers several different optimization points, but, but not everybody’s doing everything right, right? So, so anyway, I would bring this back to the university. And finally, we kind of got a critical mass of other people who had like interests and and the University started really putting energy out there and finding their own leads and and this, you know, really came to a critical mass, I would say, about three years ago. And, you know, credit to our, our sort of innovation connector director, Tom Schneck and Berger. He he’s kind of rounded up the group. We’ve got about 35 profs that that do things, that have Ag in the portfolio, and in fact, maybe it’s close to four. 40 now. And this is across law, business, science, engineering, social science, you know, the labor side, everything and so, so it’s kind of a neat and so it’s AGG, you win right now is what I would, I would call a research center that is aspiring to become an institute at the University. There’s certain hurdles that are required you must clear to make Institute status. And so you need a business model, you need some history. We’re working on that right now, and so I’m really excited about it, because it, you know, there’s certain things I would say, Canada is blessed to have a fantastic educational landscape. I tell people, particularly our students, that, Oh, my goodness, are you lucky to be at a Canadian university because they perform at such a high level on average that they really, really do. But each one has its own specialties, right and and a lot of those specialties are still really spatially connected. So for instance, Toronto, Metropolitan University, it’s going to be hard to beat them on really urban issues. You know that they are where they are. You know you’re not going to take mining away from Laurentian University. You’re not going to take oceanography away from Memorial, right? And and the greenhouses have been in our backyard for years, so it was time that we stepped up and and so that’s kind of, this is something that on my mind, is long overdue, and it’s finally coming around, and the growers are aware of us, and in the ag, sort of, you know, advocacy groups are aware of us, and we’re we’re getting things together.

Jay Whetter  21:58

Rob, there’s a few things that I want to go back to, because you from a communications and just an interest in the story angle and goals. I want to, I want to dig into three things. The farmer, I think you said Christophe, Echo

Rupp Carriveau  22:14

Tom, Christopher snucker, burger, burger.

Jay Whetter  22:19

Bergen. Bergen. Yeah. And then, and then the greenhouse being stressful, and the high stakes, the three of these things will be very interesting, I think if we can dig into them, yeah, of course. What so this farmer, Christophe echo, why was this person so pivotal for you and inspired you to go forward with this. Ague win, it’s almost sounds like this. This farmer was, that was the instigator in what has become a sounds like a very useful and interesting, almost, Institute. What? So, what was, what was the why was that so important?

Rupp Carriveau  22:56

Sure, sure. So let me, let me get his name right. So Chris del Greco, and del Greco, Chris, yeah, and and selfishly speaking, I would like to say that that is the narrative, because he was the first one. And what inspired me was that Chris would he he worked himself up. They had farming in their family, but he’d actually come from automotive. He’d done some farming, but his, he came up as an engineer, and he was working in automotive to the Chrysler plant. And do No, I think he worked at a tier one supplier in a nearby in a nearby town, yeah, and he, he, I think he was basically, you know, amassing revenue to help his bid to take over a greenhouse that was winding down. And so he, he went into this over operation and changed everything about how it worked, and all I know is he would say, this is what we’re going to do. And the next week I was out there, it was done, and that that started making me really strong, starting to make me really uncomfortable, because I’m like, I hope he doesn’t expect that kind of efficacy

Toban Dyck  24:21

from me, like

Rupp Carriveau  24:22

he Yeah, so that that’s and that’s a challenge, because, you know, farmers we know don’t have time to mess around and and greenhouse, I feel like it’s accelerated On top of regular farming anyhow, because the environment is so prescriptive. It’s, you know, and you think, oh, so controlled. So, you know, these guys should be able to sit back with their automated agents taking care of everything. But, oh, it again. I reiterate the per. Production business that they’ve put themselves in. They’re not, I mean, they’re not growers, they’re producers. It requires, you know, a flawless execution, near flawless execution, and if you have pest management problem year one or like, in one year and the next year you run into some maybe, maybe some kind of labor issue or something, you’re done, you’re done. There’s no more and, like, the

Jay Whetter  25:31

business is done, yeah, well, because it’s just no room for that kind of major error. Why is that? Because, because he said the stressful mistakes are high, which is one of the things I did want to talk about. I think, I don’t know what a green is. It $2 million an acre, but it’s got to be more than that. Now. So you’re, you’re the cost of setting it up is incredible.

Toban Dyck  25:52

And, yeah, for sure. So,

Jay Whetter  25:54

so why is, I guess. Can we learn something from the greenhouse sector and pass it along to the the open fields. That whereas that, that sense of urgency maybe isn’t in all sectors of of agriculture, is there, is there a learning from that?

Rupp Carriveau  26:17

You know, I’ve struggled with this because the open field. AG, space is one that I’ve only recently stumbled into with a new, a newer project that we have looking at hydrogen and carbon and in open field. Ag, and so it’s new to me, so I’m just learning about it, but, but I was warned by others that said, Look at Greenhouse, open field, quite different. And, you know, don’t be careful in thinking that they’re analogous in terms of, you know, I got, I got spoiled by things like the data availability in the greenhouse, right? It’s like, Oh, okay. You want to know what the CO two concentration was over there, you know, 60 days ago, we have it sure, you know, this kind of thing, right? And I’ll ask field farmer, you know, can you tell me what your fuel consumption is, or what the fuel efficiency is of your harvester? And they’ll be like, when, when I’m driving it, when I’m harvesting, when I’m, you know? And, yeah, so, so there’s just, it’s just very different and, and, I mean, they’re, they’re collecting data too. It’s just, again, I don’t know their systems as well, but the lessons you’re talking about, I, I don’t know. And I in honestly, and because, you know, 15 years is a blink of an eye, and again, I mentioned being a slow learner, so maybe at year 40, I’ll have a little bit more confidence in expressing some of these opinions, but, but, but I feel like field farming is undergoing A rapid transition into a disappearance of the small farm is starting to alarm me. And again, maybe that’s just anecdotal, or maybe, maybe the evidence I have is is particularly constrained, but, but I in general, I feel like farming is getting increasingly commercial and getting away from the farmers and and more, and that’s a whole other subject, and maybe, maybe we don’t want to go down that road, but I just that that part is is interesting to me, and I know I didn’t really answer your question, and because I don’t, I Don’t think, I don’t think I have the answer. You know,

Toban Dyck  28:43

that’s fair. I mean, I think the the, yeah, like the risk margin in open field farming, which is term I’ve never really heard before, but I am an open field farmer in southern Manitoba, I would say the risk margin is quite low and and similarly, if you have a bad year, or whatever it can. It can it can ruin you. It can end your it can end your business. I can’t you know, if my dad was in the room with us, he might be able to offer some perspective on what it was like for him. I’m sure he would say, I’m sure he would actually say the same, the same thing. He might even have evidence of some of his neighbors having to, having to quit farming because of a bad year. Or, you know, price is an economic things, a pricing thing. But I would say, I would say, you’re right, though, in a general sense that there are fewer and fewer smaller farms and the and the and the risk margin, risk tolerance is, is is low.

Jay Whetter  29:37

Yeah. Before we leave, Chris del Greco, I want to make sure that I’ve captured the significance of of him inspiring you and in turn, inspiring AG, you win. Because what I’m trying to get to is just a because you talked about leadership. Yep, right? Recognizing how important individuals with a vision, or a person like you, you know, recognizing that vision and leveraging it like so there’s a lesson here that I just want to make sure we capture,

Toban Dyck  30:13

yeah, I guess, probably to piggyback off that, probably hoping to inspire someone Yeah, who’s listening to this and who has an idea to see it through, to take it to that next level, because of Chris’s

Jay Whetter  30:26

model, Chris was Chris’s, Chris’s vision, but also your, I mean, both of you were working in tandem, because you recognize this is something significant, and took it to the university and said, we need to do something with this. So can you just walk us through? Why? What another institution might learn from

Rupp Carriveau  30:42

that. I think, I think you, you have to recognize the people like you pointed out with vision, not just vision, but drive. Oh, my God, relentless drive, like again, like I said, I told, I tell Chris all the time when I see him, he frightens me because he, I don’t want to let him down, also because I he’s, he’s really been he, he wants, he so he’s got vision, he’s got drive, but he also has humility, and he believes that we have something to offer. So he’s, he’s worked with us on a number of our, you know, I consider our banner, sort of research projects that, you know, involve the province of Ontario Energy stakeholders investigating things like, how would hydrogen be useful in a greenhouse, ag space. He has, he is a, he is a leader in sort of what I consider, you know, I consider farming in energy business. I have to, because people are like, see, you do ag and you do energy. Like, how do you reconcile that? I’m like, it’s, it’s all energy. Food is energy for people, right? So, it’s all energy. And so Chris, Chris has two streams. He’s got peppers and he’s got electrons, and he potentially could have clean molecules as well. And so, you know, I’ve tried to, you know, look at that as one cohesive vision that farmers really, in a way, run, in my mind, sort of energy refineries that that you know and and Chris sort of had the vision to know that to be independent and sort of resilient, he needed his own energy supply, so he Has cogeneration engines that are beyond what he needs, and he also sells energy to the grid as a result. So he has a couple different revenue streams. This was very interesting to me. So he we did this big project together on hydrogen. I talked about after that, he hired my graduate student to be his sort of integrate innovation operations manager. He likes this because he doesn’t have to take time to talk to me. He’s like, I got your own guy here. You talk to him, he’ll give me the the Cole’s notes, and we keep going. So it’s really based on this relationship and but you need that. You need you need someone who moves, who has vision, but moves has drive, but also humility and the appreciation that maybe there may be some other good places to get ideas. Chris is all about that. He’s interested in making the best for his business. And so you need to find those people as a university, and you need to cater to them. That’s really important.

Jay Whetter  33:45

Yeah, gotta find them and cater to them. Okay, I want to get to that. But you said he has three streams peppers, electrons and clean molecules. What the heck

Toban Dyck  33:56

I you lost me after peppers. But

Jay Whetter  34:00

can you just define what you mean?

Rupp Carriveau  34:03

Yep, so, so, so to heat the greenhouse, right? He has he needs, in this case, the fuel of the day is natural gas. And so he has natural gas that comes in, and he’s got boilers, and they’re there for heat. But he also has cogeneration engines. So basically a jet engine that runs on natural gas. And so he’s got, he’s got four of these, and and they generate heat. They also generate electricity. So you know, if he were to add lights to his operation, he has all the electricity he needs, but he also has heat. So he’s got heat from the boilers. He’s got heat from these co generators and and because he has more than he needs, he has a contract that with the province to put that power on the transmission lines for Ontario. So that’s another source of revenue for him, that is that is a. Weekly couple the electrons

Jay Whetter  35:01

of the electricity. Yeah, the electrons, that’s very interesting. And what are the clean molecules? Is that the

Rupp Carriveau  35:08

hydrogen clean molecules would be hydrogen in a scenario where he puts in an electrolyzer, which is what we were doing, largely doing a feasibility study for so that that hasn’t happened, but, but it’s again, okay, Chris. Chris is asking about all kinds of things. He’s asking about small modular nuclear reactors. He’s asking about all kinds of things.

Jay Whetter  35:30

So what, what does he get out of this? Like, what does ague? And you said it’s, it’s you want, you don’t want to let him down. And maybe that’s where you’re you. And the 4035, to 40 researchers at aguin working as a unit, which I think is phenomenal, if not working as a unit, at least talking about what they’re working on. So what do you give back to a driven farmer like Chris?

Rupp Carriveau  35:55

I would say availability, accessibility, availability. So I’ll give you an example again. He he was looking at some automation things that he wants to implement. So he’s got, he’s got automation already, but he has some other things he wants to work on. And that’s something I did in a former life. It’s not my current occupation. But we have a fantastic robotics person in ag, you win? This guy, Dr Shapour, and I brought him out there, and he’s like, Yeah, I know these robots really well, and we can do something.

Jay Whetter  36:33

So wait a second. So the university, AG, you win, is in service to farmers.

Toban Dyck  36:42

Yes, was it was that Wait,

Jay Whetter  36:49

that that sounds inspirational and sadly unique. I’m just going to leave that out there.

Toban Dyck  36:58

Toban, yeah, for sure. This is for sure. I agree with Jay. What? What was Chris’s ask? Like, What? What? What did he ask for?

Rupp Carriveau  37:08

So he, he brought me in, and he said, look at these are all the things I’m working on. I just want I know they may not all be yours, but I need you to know all the things I’m doing. And believe me, I’ve only covered, like, a quarter of the things he’s got cooking, right? Okay, but so he shows and so, you know, a number of them I could handle, or, like, our group can handle, but again, I saw the the robotics piece, and I’m like that that’s, I don’t keep up with that these days. I mean, I’m an enthusiast, but not an expert. And so I went back with the pieces that I couldn’t handle to my ag, you in team, and said, Look at we’ve got. And I caution like, we can’t mess this up case this guy, this guy’s the guy, right? So, and yeah, we they went out right away. Shapur went out to visit my student who’s working out there, and got all the stuff, and they developed a proposal, and they’re reviewing it right now. So you know, academics have, in some places, and some cases, earned a reputation for what I think is really a smash and grab collaboration style. I I never acted this way because I, I guess I just always wanted to help make the people happy, make the relationship better. To me, relationships are way bigger than projects, right? Because I you have to live with yourself, right? So, but, but I know that they, they have been many cases, farmers in particular, academics will go out and be like, Oh, I understand you. You have this issue with your water or your pest management or or fuel efficiency. Give us all your data, and you know we’ll work on something for you. Farmer stops what they’re doing. They curate the data, they provide the data. The academics go away. They work out a nice little project. They meet all the milestones of the funder that they had, and the farmer never hears from them again, like, so when, when they, when the new academic comes calling, they’re like, yeah, we’ve been there, done that. I don’t, I don’t think we’re doing that again.

Toban Dyck  39:31

Yeah, yeah. I think it’s, I think it’s really interesting that Chris’s ask was, was was more so, just him sharing, not more so or not meant to belittle it in any way, but sharing with you what he all does, and the complexities of kind of of his operation. But I know you’re not going to say this about yourself, but what I what I see, is you put the scaffolding up. You put the framework together for how, given what you know of Chris. How the university can, can best serve as him, and can best kind of be its best self from from that information, I think that’s applaudable. I just gonna Yeah, I agree, yeah. I think you’re, you’re understating your role here. Yeah, we’ve got, there’s farmers all across Canada. There’s universities doing agriculture research all across Canada. Not every institution has that pivotal middle person like you. So tell us, what if you weren’t there?

Jay Whetter  40:29

I, my sense is this wouldn’t exist. So so be immodest and tell us your about your role.

Rupp Carriveau  40:40

Okay, this is really kind of you folks to say it that way. But if, okay, so if I’m intentionally being immodest, I would, I would just say that it has always been my interest to make good friends in these industrial collaborations and and that is not a typical archetype, I don’t think. And I don’t mean that we’re going out for drinks and things like that. I mean that in the in the professional sphere, we we are, we are friends to each other, and we have a relationship and it, you know, I had a colleague I never let him forget it in wind energy, who was really giving it to me one time in a meeting in front of other collaborators, other industrial collaborators, and I said, I said, why we after the meeting? He’s like, Hey, don’t, don’t. Don’t be bummed, man. It’s just business. And I’m like, it’s not, it’s not just business. He said nothing personal. I’m like, it’s always personal. Yeah, it’s always personal. Like to think that I wasn’t doing a good job, or that you thought I wasn’t doing my best, that that’s a that’s upsetting to me, like I get reclump Just thinking about it now, like I don’t, I don’t want to do that to people. And so I feel like maybe some of these farmers recognize that my sincere interest in trying to help them, I can’t, I don’t, you know, my skill set is limited, but we have some real crackers, you know, who can do great things back at the school? I can, I can bring them out there, right?

Toban Dyck  42:22

Yeah, yeah, fantastic, yeah. Really. I mean, I think it’s interesting because, I mean part of the part of the role, I mean it ties into the research network as well, and your and your kind of passion for breaking down silos, I think it’s a really interesting model to have a whole bunch of people in a university who are working, I mean, that you could scale that model however, however big you wanted to. I think in Canada, we should be better at communicating with each other, everyone who’s working in, let’s say, AG, as we’re talking about today, that that model would be amazing in government, that would be, that would be amazing. So it’s really interesting to see this in action, and from what I can gather, be successful, yeah, maybe, maybe talk a little bit about that, like and that kind of the silo, sure piece. Yeah, happy to

Rupp Carriveau  43:16

do that. Thanks. Thanks for the lead in on that. So I saw this as I got more and more sort of connected to, you know, we’re blessed here. We have, AG, Canada has a harrow Research Station, which is close to our university. And they have a they have a greenhouse campus. And there’s some, oh my gosh, there’s some just complete rocket scientists out there. In fact, they’re beyond rocket scientists, Dr schuming How and they have an engineer, Quade Digweed. These folks are, they’re just remarkable. And, you know, we hadn’t really, they were doing their thing. We were doing our thing. We hadn’t. And so I got connected to them, and I thought, Oh, my goodness. And then I found out about Vineland Research and Innovation Center in Ontario. And then I I found about folks at, you know, Lethbridge in Lethbridge, Alberta, do working on things, and another guy at Dalhousie and but nobody really knew each other. And I thought, oh, man, if we could connect all these resources, you know, and Guelph and everything else, I just thought we might have, we might really have something here. So, you know, I proposed this greenhouse research, education and training great Institute, and so I pitched it for funding and and the funding agency said it was fruit and vegetable growers Canada said, Oh, this is good. This resonates with some of our aspirations. And so they sort of took it out of the traditional funding stream. And, and we’ve been working for the last couple years to try to, you know, we’ve streamlined it. We’ve called it the Canadian greenhouse excellence network now, but, but the idea is that there are universities, there are farmers, there are national labs, there there are vendors, all these people wielding this wisdom that is not being coordinated and amplified the way it could. And so our proposal is that we may be able to create a network where you create a portal, or a gateway that would allow you to do three really neat basic things. One, Project builder, I want to put LED lights for my peppers. Where do I start? Who should I see, right? So it goes in tells you who the experts are in that space. How will I fund it, right? So you ask about that. All the current funding is revealed. And again, you know, could ai do this, maybe, but the type of information you’re talking about, a lot of it is private. So this will be a privately informed in addition to the Public Information sort of Portal, right? The second piece would be an education sphere, where, again, the public maybe young elementary school students, or sometimes I will. I’m invited to lobby in Ottawa with fruit and vegetable growers Canada. I’ll be trying to explain how the carbon dioxide from the natural gas is actually used by the plants on the other side of the of the jet engine or the boiler. And I think, man, a graphic would really help me. Right now, you know, something dynamic. So, you know, these education pieces are really important for policy makers and advocates, right? So that’s sort of a, you know, what’s the sector about, all the cool things that it can do and that get done. And then the final piece is training, where we would actually have a, what I would, I call a multi institutionally integrated certification. So you could, you know, we were approached often at conferences. Well, how do I, you know how to get into the sector? I’m a science kid. I’m just working in general biology, but I want to know about, what’s this pest management. I understand there’s all kinds of technology in that. What is there any way I can earn a badge or something, or, you know, build up my resume. We’ll have growers that want to know just more about cybersecurity, and they want some certification for it. So, you know, we’re thinking maybe, you know, Lethbridge is offering something on pests, and Guelph is offering something on cybersecurity. Windsor offers something on robotics. You know, it’s kind of an a la carte. You build your own certification again, so that that’s, that’s sort of, you know, high level indication of what we’d like to achieve. And again, it would be all the experts across this country that would feed into this to provide that kind of, you know, Knowledge Center.

Jay Whetter  48:07

And are the when the experts are asked to participate, do you get sort of enthusiastic response, or do you feel like they’re kind of in a in a cage? I don’t know whether it’s because of their their faculty, or their particular university, or maybe it’s a funding cage where they can’t break out of it for some reason. Or is it, is it just getting out there and asking them, when they realize, yes, I’ll be part of that network, for sure? Is it? What is the response?

Rupp Carriveau  48:36

Yeah, it’s to date, it’s always been positive. I mean, you know, once people, once people get around, is this going to cost me money, or, you know, extra time like it, as long as the opportunity is presented in a way that is attractive, people are generally on board.

Toban Dyck  49:00

And where is this network at right now? Has it? Sorry, excuse me, if it’s good. Apologies if it’s been said. But is it? Is it? Is it active? Is it, is it in the process, burgeoning so

Rupp Carriveau  49:12

we are, we are trying to get it to its feet. We are, we are. We’ve been, we had some initial funding to help us sort of collect inputs. And we took, we called it the power hour. I think that was a much music thing we stole, just wantonly stole that we had, like an hour of these. I guess they were webinars, but they were like, live data collection, you know, Cahoots or whatever, to get stakeholder inputs. So, you know, the government said, Oh, you want to develop something for the country, you better talk to the country about that. And so we, we took about a year to collect. Uh, about 1100 sort of different questions and data points to to make sure that we were, you know, and so now we’re bringing all that forward in applications for for federal funding and private funding to sort of bring this together to show the value of what it would be, so that we can, we can launch it

Jay Whetter  50:26

the power hour so many webinars are just one way information dumps. Then at the end, maybe there’s Q and A, if there’s time, what is, how is your approach different? Like, you’re, you’re trying to bring in and use the word Kahoot. And I’m thinking, like, this, is, this, is just like Kahoot says in, you know, getting people together, or is it, is this like a tool, specific tool or an app?

Rupp Carriveau  50:52

Yeah, Cahoots, a platform. It’s like a, it’s like a quiz show. It’s quiz show.

Jay Whetter  50:56

So, yeah, okay, good, yeah, that’s right, that’s the one I was thinking of, yeah. So how do you use, get this, this is getting ready into the tactics of extension and communication. So in this, in this power hour, how do you use Kahoot, exactly.

Rupp Carriveau  51:09

So we, we would say, I’m a greenhouse farmer. I’m most interested in, you know, I’m trying to think, I try to think of one of the questions, like, it would be like, put the following issues in order of significance for you, energy, for my farm labor, for my farm pest control, you know, and so, so these things stack, and then what they do. The nice thing is, is people respond. And I’m sure you guys have seen these. It’s like the live polling stuff. It’s quite dynamic, right? And you’re like, oh, energy’s taking a lead, you know? And then, and then, at the end, you’ve got this composite picture for the group that you’re dealing with. Some of them we did in person, and some of them we did virtually, and and then, and then and then some sometimes it was a hybrid, and it was quite nice, because we just kept aggregating that, and then eventually we had one massive aggregate report, because we asked the same questions everywhere.

Jay Whetter  52:13

So what was, what is the power? I can’t remember Power Hour, yep. What is, what is that event like? Is it? Is it? Is it a webinar and then some questions? Or is it, or is it just like an in for info gathering,

Rupp Carriveau  52:28

so we call it the C Gen Power Hour, and it was we basically, you know, explained to folks that we’re trying to get this national network of excellence, going for greenhouses, and we need your input. And you know it, we rarely use the whole hour, but, but And folks, folks would attend because they wanted, they wanted their inputs heard.

Toban Dyck  52:57

Yeah, what in your in your experience, and we’re kind of getting close to wrap up time here, what is the most effective kind of way to extend information in your experience?

Rupp Carriveau  53:19

Well, my I, my favorite is in person, to get together and to have sufficient structure to provoke interest or to provoke investment of investment, of attention and of emotion, and then you have to listen. You have to listen. That’s, that’s the hard part, and is that people get and I know this because I get excited talking about something. People want to listen for so long, and then they want a chance to speak. So everybody needs a chance to speak, and everybody needs a chance to have the floor if they so want it, and that’s really done most effectively in person.

Jay Whetter  54:11

Yeah, and do you make a point of going around the table and asking people to contribute?

Rupp Carriveau  54:18

We try to, we do. I mean, not everybody wants to, but, yeah, but I mean, I, I like that, and I think it’s important to have a like, you know, we try to have a social thing after because, yeah, that’s also invaluable. Now we’re outside of the the structure, and it’s like, you know, I really liked what you said. I just in the room. I wasn’t sure who was there. I wasn’t sure what you know, I understand that completely, and then then you get a different story so that,

Jay Whetter  54:45

and how do you capture that though? Do you write it down afterwards?

Rupp Carriveau  54:50

I do, yeah, I’m very write those things down, yeah, because it you guys know those insights, those insights are invaluable,

Jay Whetter  54:59

right? They are, yeah, yeah. Well, there’s a whole technique in journalism, which, I mean, it’s, it’s not that it’s not fair or underhanded, but, you know, you put your notebook away and the person you’re interviewing assumes that it’s all over, and then real, the real comments come out. So meanwhile, like, and then as soon as I Oh, okay, yeah, that was a good one. So write it down, and that ends up as the lead for the for the article. But I mean, so that’s, but that’s kind of what you’re doing with the capturing of ideas. Because often it’s those, those once a notebook is closed or the class is over, when you get the real insights. Yeah, Rob, I just want to because I said earlier, and you said leadership and people and being with people. Can you tell me, in a minute or so, the significance of this, this fellow, Tom, and now I’ve forgotten,

Rupp Carriveau  55:49

yeah, and he’s got, he’s got a, yeah, probably German schnecken Berger, yeah. Tom is our industrial innovation lead. I his title just recently changed. He’s a, I think he’s like a Director of Innovation, but, but he is. He is not a technical person. He He understands technical things, and he he he identifies, he brings industry in and he brings us out. So he’s, he’s a connector, and he’s okay, very dynamic. Most universities have them. We’re, we’re really lucky that we have Tom. Tom’s uh, Tom’s unusually good, yeah.

Jay Whetter  56:39

Well, this has all been really wonderful. Rob, thank you for sharing. Yeah, there’s a few really juicy extension tactics that you’ve provided for us, which I’m really excited to tell people about and share. But just the whole experience with with what you’re doing with, AG, you win and their network. Both of those initiatives sound so valuable and and so through the podcast Toban, I look forward to sharing that with other universities, other provinces within Canada.

Rupp Carriveau  57:11

Excellent. I’m thrilled and flattered for the opportunity to talk about it. I mean, you know, again, it was super flattering just to I, you know, I’m aware of both of your profiles, so to get to have this kind of conversation with you guys was really nice for me and and I think what you’re doing is super important. So I want to thank you for the opportunity. I’m thrilled and very grateful.

Toban Dyck  57:37

Well, thanks so much. Excellent. This was a

Jay Whetter  57:39

pleasure, and I agree. You know, just to your point about it’s this isn’t business. It’s personal. I agree it’s always personal

Toban Dyck  57:46

to value relationships. Yeah? I mean, I feel like that’s such a strong point too, right?

Jay Whetter  57:50

I agree, yeah. Anyway, great. Thanks again. Thanks so much. Do you

Jay Whetter  57:59

like what you’re hearing and want to support the extensionists. If you are an agriculture company or association looking for a powerful way to get your message in front of Canadian farmers, then partner with us. Our listeners are farmers from coast to coast.

Toban Dyck  58:12

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Jay Whetter  58:24

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Toban Dyck  58:33

So if you’re ready to get your message out there and connect with farmers across Canada, let’s talk visit the extensionists.com for more information.

Jay Whetter  58:46

Mike is in place. Now, that was fantastic. Toban was great. Was so great. That’s a world that I don’t know anything about greenhouse production, but,

Toban Dyck  58:58

but you did, you refer to open field, and that was, is that I didn’t know that the opposite of greenhouse was sure. I mean, it made sense right away. As soon as it was said, I’m like, oh, yeah, of course. But then he used it because he, I wonder if, like, he knows it as well in relation to greenhouse, yeah, yeah. I mean, I thought way more than Yeah. Anyway, what was

Jay Whetter  59:20

your what were your take? I feel like there were a lot of takeaways. What was there anything that rose to the top for you? Yeah, the

Toban Dyck  59:27

certainly, the process through which egg you win was formed, I think, is very interesting. And you asked some you some good questions too, in terms of, like, getting into the details and really wanting to kind of make it a story about a farmer going to university with a problem and a university responding in a in a very practical and helpful, beneficial way, I thought that that was it was worth spending the time we did on. And I like that a lot. That, yeah.

Jay Whetter  1:00:01

AG, you win. So 35 to 40 agriculture professors at the University of Windsor kind of working together to help solve problems in service to the greenhouse industry or growers in general. That is how I understand model, yes and and RUP being kind of a key to that, because, because we’ve got these researchers who’ve got the farmers, but you need that go between who’s really active and passion and loves to do a good job and doesn’t want to disappoint his farmers. Yeah, man, I was, I found that very inspiring.

Toban Dyck  1:00:36

And the obviously, you know, he’s a he’s one who likes somebody, who likes hiking and like because it’s not irrelevant, because it’s like, he need energy to do stuff like that, right? Yeah, right. Because you are, you are, you know, you’re beating down doors and you’re being repetitive, and you’re, yeah, you’re emailing and talking and cornering and like, it’s not just, Hey, you guys want to get together and do this, and everyone’s like, yes, it’s not like that, right?

Jay Whetter  1:01:04

And then you got to, then you organize the meeting, and then you organize the next meeting, yeah? And then you keep so it’s, you’re a morale booster, yeah? You got to keep up your own morale and energy to keep all of that going. And then when that person, when rep, retires, does it all fall apart, right? So, how does the university make sure there’s continuity? I mean, it’s, I mean, it

Toban Dyck  1:01:24

sounds like, it sounds like he’s, they’re trying to formalize it, to make it an institute, which is smart, right? Because then it’s, then it has, starts to have life outside of, outside of rep, but, but, yeah, it’s, it’s really kind of neat. And then the work he’s doing with that research other universities. Anyways, I’m gonna stop talking about my takeaways, and what are your Oh, no, those are mine as

Jay Whetter  1:01:44

well. And then the the other, just that little tactic of these, the Power Hour is his much music idea where you you’re bringing in ideas and using a platform like Kahoot, which is a gaming like a quiz show kind of

Toban Dyck  1:01:59

platform. Yeah, I’ve seen it, yeah, I’ve seen it, too.

Jay Whetter  1:02:04

And then there’s other, other kind of quiz or questioning platform just, but just to take those, those hours of people’s time, oh, I wanted to ask him about what was the word he used to and it wasn’t. It was like, provoke. That is a very interesting choice of word that I wanted to ask him about. When did he use it? He used it near the end because he said he he wanted to provoke people to participate. Yeah, and All right, so how do you write the invitation, or how do you name the event that provokes? But I just love the use of provoke, like you’re kind of stirring interest, yeah, you gotta, yeah, you’re so it becomes marketing in a way, yeah, anyway, like, great, great stuff. That was a great one. We should sign off. This has been the extensionists. I’m Jay

Toban Dyck  1:02:56

and I’m Toban, till next time. This

Jay Whetter  1:03:01

has been a burr forest group production.

Toban Dyck  1:03:03

We also want to thank the people working behind the scenes to make this podcast happen.

Jay Whetter  1:03:08

Abby wall is our producer and editor. Ashley Robinson is our coordinator and Michelle Holden is our designer. You